From the Spectrum Blog: http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2011/03/09/la-sierra-university-board-releases-documents#comment-83068 Daniel, You wrote: It is sad that we are …

Comment on LSU Board says ‘we apologize’ by Sean Pitman.

From the Spectrum Blog:
http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2011/03/09/la-sierra-university-board-releases-documents#comment-83068

Daniel,

You wrote:

It is sad that we are willing to send our 18-year-olds into war and we allow them to vote for our local, state, and national leaders, but we cannot permit them to participate in discussions about evolution without having to frame said discussions so that only one conclusion can be reached. Not much of a discussion, in my opinion. Worse yet, not much of an institution of higher learning.

You misunderstand the basic argument in play here. We definitely want our young people to know everything there is to know about the modern theory of evolution. They should be taught about this theory. However, they should not be taught that this theory is clearly valid or that it is the best availbable scientific theory of origins.

Our own young people should also be exposed to the evidence, the abundant evidence, that is available in support of the SDA Church’s position on origins – i.e., a recent arival of life on this planet, the lack of a viable evolutionary mechanism for change beyond very low levels of functional complexity, and the evidence for a recent catastrophic formation of much of the geologic column and fossil records.

Our students at LSU simply are not well versed in the evidence for Creation [at least not the SDA view of Creation]. They are only well versed in the arguments for mainstream evolutionary biology. That’s the problem.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

LSU Board says ‘we apologize’
@Ron Stone M.D.:

So, for Sean and Shane to say a “so and so” other person is “hurting” their cause is pure baloney!

The people whose opinion we most care about don’t work for or likely subscribe to Spectrum – let me tell you 😉

When those on “our side” make needlessly pejorative comments and use vulgar or crude language (as you are prone to do on occasion), it makes people at Spectrum or AdventistToday quite pleased to be able to point such things out…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


LSU Board says ‘we apologize’
@Eddie:

What they are teaching needs to be public knowledge that is well known and knowable by all. – Sean Pitman

So what do you want, a webcam in each classroom–so people can freely learn what others pay tuition dollars for? – Eddie

Don’t play ignorant here. You know as well as I do that parents have a clear right to know the general outline of what their kids are being taught – to include if their kids at one of our schools are being taught that the SDA position on origins is clearly irrational and part of the “lunatic fringe” of belief systems. Teachers have no right to keep what they are in fact teaching along these lines secret and should expect to be called out in public when they promote such ideas in our classrooms.

your effort to support the secrecy that has been taking place at LSU – Sean Pitman

Excuse me. I have never supported secrecy at LSU. I have repeatedly stated my oposition to megaevolution being taught as the truth at LSU. I even wrote privately to church leaders BEFORE this website ever appeared. I was initially pleased when I first saw this website–until I quickly realized it was being used to attack individuals, including many who have no association with LSU. I have a number of friends who have been slandered here and a few have been so upset they were nearly in tears–and yet nobody ever apologizes.

It amazes me how often this forum’s “Comment Guidelines” are ignored: “Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated… No belittling of individual members, their character, or their motives.” I remain indignant. – Eddie

It is very difficult for one or two people to monitor as many comments as a website like this receives over a relatively short period of time. We have earnestly tried to make the conversations as civil as possible, but certainly aren’t perfect in this regard. I’m sure someone like yourself would do a much better job.

However, what I’m questioning with regard to your own comments are your suggestions that at no time should the actions of an individual who is attacking the Church in a classroom forum be addressed in a public manner. I just can’t buy into that argument given the serious nature of what has been taking place at LSU for over 30 years without substantive challenge or correction. I’ve written many private letters and had many private conversations with various parties involved during the past 10 years myself. Taking this issue public isn’t something that Shane, David, or I took lightly. We soberly considered many other options before taking this issue to the Church body at large.

Of course, mistakes have been made for which we do and have apologized. But, the basic goal and overall presentation of the evidence was presented, I believe, in a very even handed way given the urgency of the situation. Allowing for comments in response to the information presented does not come without risks. We did not and still do not agree with most of the comments that we allow to be posted on this forum. We especially cringe at many of the comments from those posters who claim to be on “our side” and supportive of what we are trying to do, yet who, we feel, inflict the most damage to our cause. Yet, what are we to do? Block all comments with which we don’t agree? We’ve seriously thought about doing that as well… It’s hard to know what to do about comments…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


LSU Board says ‘we apologize’
@Eddie:

Most SDAs regard Ellen White as a prophet. If she received an inspired message from God to publicly rebuke the college and its professors, who am I to argue with her? However, I seriously doubt anybody reading this forum considers any respondents here to have been divinely inspired to publicly criticize either institutions or individuals.

Prophets are not the only ones who can be inspired by God to act in a time of crisis for the Church. If LSU is in a similar situation to what was taking place at Battle Creek College in Mrs. White’s day (and it is), then why shouldn’t it be called out in a similar manner and parents advised not to send their children to LSU in a similar way to that proposed by Mrs. White in her own day?

I have no problem with publicly pointing out the presence of sin in an institution or among church leaders, as long as it is done honestly, respectfully and constructively, in a manner that does not intentionally inflict undue division and harm to the organized church.

That’s what we’re doing. We did not undertake this mission without years of trying many other methods to privately address this issue. LSU’s attack on the fundamentals of the SDA Church has been taking place for decades – for over 30 years. I’ve personally been involved with trying to privately check this attack on Church doctrines for almost 10 years. Nothing worked. No private effort achieved anything more than platitudes from either the LSU government or the SDA Church hierarchy. So, finally, after much thought and prayer, this significant problem for the Church was taken to the Church body at large – as per the recommendation of the Bible itself.

Public sins or rebellion within the Church, if not checked after appropriate private efforts, must eventually be brought before the Church as a body and addressed publicly. Otherwise, the Church body will suffer needlessly and without appropriate warning.

However, I strongly feel it is a violation of the spirit of the 6th commandment to publicly do so with individuals, including leaders, regardless of whether the sin is private or public. It’s often referred to as the “golden rule” (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31).

Individuals who take on a public office of responsibility are responsible for their public actions. If they will not respond to private reprimands, their public actions must be addressed publicly in order to protect and warn the public of their own injury.

In short, parents and the Church membership at large have an inherent right to know what they are spending their hard earned dollars to have their precious children taught in our own schools. No teacher in our schools has any right to keep what they are teaching our children secret. What they are teaching needs to be public knowledge that is well known and knowable by all. What right does anyone teaching in our schools have to teach my child anything of which I am not aware?

I’m sorry, but your effort to support the secrecy that has been taking place at LSU is not in line with the God-given rights of parents… a right which far surpassed whatever rights a teacher might have to privacy within the classroom setting…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Recent Comments by Sean Pitman

Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I think that there can be a reasonable combination of the best of modern medicine as well as the best of healthful living and natural remedies such as exercise, sunlight, vitamin D, “forest bathing”, good sleep, vegan or at least a vegetarian diet, etc…


Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
You opted not to get vaccinated during the pandemic, for whatever reason, but did not advise others to do the same. That’s fine. I think you probably increased your own risk a bit, but that’s far better than giving medical advice to others when you don’t know for sure that you’re right – especially for those who were at higher risk than you. It’s also good that you supported others who did choose to get vaccinated.

As far as SDA hospitals and organizations, I agree that there has been some drift from the ideal. I’m not happy that so many non-SDAs are hired to work in and to be leaders. I’m also disappointed that there isn’t a lot more emphasis, direction, and teaching with regard to healthful living. There are some who are doing this, like Dr. Roger Seheult. However, there does seem to be a lack of an organized or official emphasis on how to living healthful so as to avoid having to use so many medications for chronic conditions that are largely self-inflicted. Now, I do sympathize that quick fixed and pills are what most patients want. Most doesn’t want to give up their back health habits, so doctors often just give up and give their patients what they want. Still, this does not excuse the lack of effort along these lines in our hospitals and medical schools. Also, more should be done to spread the Gospel Message in our hospitals as well…


Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
Thank you for your kind words and support. I really appreciate it very much!


Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I’m fine with open dialogue, but that includes presenting and at least understanding things from the GC’s perspective and why the significant majority of SDAs and GC delegates believe that the GC did the right thing during the pandemic and with the original 2015 statement on vaccines.


Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
So, it’s impossible to be a doctor who promotes the best of modern medicine as well as the best natural remedies and still be a follower of Jesus? Really? Not even Ellen White could be saved then…