Comment on Deal with LSU by Shane Hilde.
Krisztina said: If we are talking about professors teaching things that we do not believe, and the church has not made it a requirement for membership then we shouldn’t even be bringing it up, it has no place in the conversation.
Membership has very little to do with the issue at LSU, if anything. I’m very surprised to read you’re willing to have anything taught that contradicts the fundamental beliefs of our church just as long as it’s not included in our baptismal vows.
You should peruse the church manual again. All of the twenty-eight fundamental beliefs are included and new converts must know and understand them and purpose in their hearts by the grace of God to order their lives accordingly. Read the following excerpts starting on page 29:
Thorough instruction in the fundamental teachings and related practices of the church should be given to every candidate for church membership before being baptized and received into church fellowship. Each person seeking admittance to the church should be informed of the principles for which the church stands.
The minister’s work is not completed until he has thoroughly instructed the candidates, and they are familiar with and committed to all fundamental beliefs and related practices of the church and are prepared to assume the responsibilities of church membership.
Prospective members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, before baptism or acceptance on profession of faith, should be carefully instructed from the Scriptures in the fundamental beliefs of the church as presented in chapter 3 (see p. 9) of this Church Manual.
Candidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body.
Baptismal vow #11:
Do you know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do you purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering your life in harmony with these principles?
Now that we know what the expectations are of those who become members let me add that those who are leadership carry a greater responsibility to uphold the beliefs of the church. Regardless of their personal beliefs, professors at a Adventist university should not be promoting beliefs that are contrary to a significant percentage of our core beliefs.
With that said, here are the points of contention I have with the biology department at LSU.
1. The evidence for a recent creation is not taught or promoted in any known biology course.
2. The theory of evolution is the ONLY scientific worldview being promoted in the biology department that we know of.
3. The professors themselves reject the church’s position, thus making them inadequate to to give due diligence to the evidence for a recent creation.
4. Extreme cases of derision have occurred toward students who believe in creation on campus. For example, at the conclusion of a Breakout session at LSU (Feb. 2009) a group of about four students (creationists) asked the professor, who had just finished a talk negating a recent, six-day creation, on what basis then do we observe the Sabbath. This angered another biology professor in the front row. Things escalated into yelling. Yes, the professor was yelling at these students. He soon lost control and said, “Your kind of thinking drives planes into buildings!†Other words such as stupid and ignorant were directed toward them. Chris Olmo, one of the four, said, “I felt betrayed because I couldn’t even ask a question. If I ask a question they call me ignorant. We do believe in science we just don’t believe in evolution. How are you supposed to learn in that kind of environment.†This was an extreme, but there have been other incidents which could be labelled minor in comparison. Seventh-day Adventist students should feel free to express their beliefs without this kind of treatment.
5. There is good experiential evidence that strongly suggests that the promotion of theistic evolution potentially leads to an agnostic or atheistic worldview.
I’d prefer that no one is fired or compelled to resign, but if LSU administration doesn’t start providing support for these students by giving them the classes they’re paying for and creating an environment supportive of their beliefs without derision and professors who know and understand the evidence for creation then these professors should be fired for their non-complience in the above areas.
This is simple Krisztina. Just about a whole department has rejected the church’s position on origins and has defiantly continued to promote the theory of evolution even after the board told them they were to uphold the church’s position. They either do what they’re paid to do or resign and find another place of employment, and if they don’t do that then they should be fired.
What is your position on this? Are you in favor of evolution being promoted in Adventist universities? You’ve stated that this situation is complex or not black and white. How so? Breaking directives of your employer is complex?
Shane Hilde Also Commented
Deal with LSU
@Krisztina: You seem to have a problem with simplicity. While I do not deny there are complexities in the world, I think we should be careful not to label things complex as justification for not resolving an issue. You skewed the issue even more when you said, “…it seems a little simplistic to think that by not sending our kids to SDA schools that teach things that we personally don’t agree with that our children will be undefiled by evolution.”
This isn’t about personal beliefs. The Seventh-day Adventist church has s very clear position on creation and many of the professors have rejected it and are promoting evolution in its stead. So the problem that the church body has with LSU is it is not teaching what they are being paid for. You’re belittling the issue by describing it as a quibble between personal beliefs of church members and LSU. That’s not the situation at all.
What does “stop blaming the schools for everything” mean? Who is blaming them for everything, and what is everything?
You said: “We might consider strengthening our children with extracurricular science vs. evolution buttressing to supplement their college pre-high school level education so they can stand when the winds of adversity come.”
While that is partially a good idea, you essentially said let’s supplement the lower levels of Adventist education so the can stand when the winds of adversity come once they attend our colleges and universities. Now we have to prepare and educate our kids to defend themselves for our institutions of higher learning? I don’t think that’s what you intended to say, but that is what you said. That is completely backwards and counterproductive to the continuity of Adventist education. I can just imagine a parent telling their kids, “We’ve got to get you ready and ground you so your faith isn’t destroyed when you attend one of our colleges.”
We do have a responsibility. As you can see from this website, myself and others are taking it very seriously.
Deal with LSU
@Carl: We do take the Bible as our creed, and you can’t disagree that currently the church’s official is based on a recent, six-day creation, which they think is biblical.
Carl: You are part of a tragedy when you think you can do that by driving out everyone who thinks otherwise than you do.
Whoa there! We live in a free society with no civil repercussions for leaving a church. The SDA church holds that at a fundamental level a recent, six-day creation is truth. It does not consider the evolutionary model to be true or biblical. However, if you disagree you are more than welcome to pursue what you believe to be true, but if you’re going to start proselytizing Adventist youth while on the SDA payroll to your own interpretation of truth which blatantly contradicts the position of the church, then you need to move on.
It’s ludicrous to think you can be a part of any organization and actively promote beliefs that undermine their fundamental beliefs without any consequence. If you want to be absolutely free to proselytize your own beliefs, do it on your own time and dime.
Here’s the reality of the situation right now Carl. SDA parents and students are not paying for an expensive SDA education to be taught we evolved from animals over millions of years. Until the tide changes, these professors have absolutely no right to take their money and proselytize their children.
What kind of education system would we have if we allowed LSU to just do whatever it wanted with our money? Our kids grow up being taught God made the world in the recent past in six days, but once they get to our universities they’re taught that belief is part of the lunatic fringe and evolution is actually the truth. That’s crazy.
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ADvindicate has also published an article about LSU and Raul Diaz that expands on a few details.
http://advindicate.com/?p=2625
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@Eddie: The Bible does not specify an age of accountability (to my knowledge), but the Israelites considered the age of 12 to be the turning point. I wouldn’t base a theology off of tradition though. Also, it’s not our place to judge what happens to those who have not been able to make a decision.
Perspectives from alleged LSU students
@Blodgett: Was there a comment you’d like to add?
At La Sierra, Biology Faculty Affirms Importance of Teaching About Creation in Curriculum
@David Read: And perhaps not something Christ would do. I can understand your frustration though. I’ve been on the verge of quitting this whole thing many times. I’ve been guilty of letting that frustration control and influence things I shouldn’t have said.
I have to remind myself to look at the big picture. In the end all those who are not supposed to be in the church will be sifted out. I pray I am not one of them.
Board of Trustees Addresses Curriculum Proposal
I know from talking to a couple of reporters from Press Enterprise and Inside Higher Ed that Randal Wisbey was effective in shutting down communication between any outsiders and the biology faculty. It appears he made himself the only channel of communication between the board and biology faculty.
I emailed Larry Becker about what bylaw the board members broke that was worthy of dismissal, and I have yet to hear a response from him.
I would also note that board members at other universities appear to be free to talk to the faculty.
Another interesting point. He removes three board members for trying to work on the problem and come up with a solution, and then turns around sort of embraces what they’re doing. He can’t publicly condemn it because everyone can see, whether you agree with what they wrote or not, that it’s a significant step for the faculty to be speaking to the church.
Did he forbid the document from being published? No. If you’re really excited about seeing the biology department making advancements in solving the issue, why are you removing the people who are making that happen. He never did anything like that.
What has Wisbey done to address and fix this issue? Nothing. He’s dragged it out, lied about what’s been happening, and told everyone involved to shut up or get in trouble. What on earth is he trying to do?
Who knows, he might even be a part of the underground movement to sever LSU from the church by using WASC as the big hammer. It’s obvious from one former board member, there was interest in using WASC to manipulate the situation.
