Carl: You are providing a forum people to vent hostile …

Comment on Deal with LSU by Sean Pitman, M.D..

Carl: You are providing a forum people to vent hostile statements whether or not they understand the issues well. I suggest that you have an obligation to provide a much broader range of information than I have seen posted so far.

You mistake the primary purpose of this forum. This forum isn’t so much about debating the truth or error of theories regarding creation or evolution. This forum is about the issue of professors in SDA schools taking money from the SDA Church organization while teaching their students ideas that directly counter what the SDA Church organization currently stands for. That is a moral wrong. It is stealing from the Church.

You argue that the SDA Church is not creedal, therefore anything goes essentially…

This is a mistaken view. From very early on the founding fathers of the SDA Church quickly figured out that some sort of discipline or enforcement of church order and government was in fact necessary to prevent utter chaos and fragmentation. J.N. Loughborough and James White, while in initial opposition to church government, soon realized its necessity and started issuing “cards of commendation” only to those pastors and teachers who accurately represented the views of the church as an organization.

Of course, those who were not considered to accurately represent the views of the early SDA Church did not receive “cards of commendation”. And what was the attitude of such persons? – according to Loughborough?:

Of course those who claimed “liberty to do as they pleased,” to “preach what they pleased,” and to “go when and where they pleased,” without “consultation with any one,” failed to get cards of commendation. They, with their sympathizers, drew off and commenced a warfare against those whom they claimed were “depriving them of their liberty.” Knowing that it was the Testimonies that had prompted us as a people to act, to establish “order,” these opponents soon turned their warfare against instruction from that source, claiming that “when they got that gift out of the way, the message would go unrestrained to its `loud cry.’ ”

One of the principal claims made by those who warred against organization was that it “abridged their liberty and independence, and that if one stood clear before the Lord that was all the organization needed,” etc… All the efforts made to establish order are considered dangerous, a restriction of rightful liberty, and hence are feared as popery.”
– Loughborough, JN. Testimonies for the Church. p. 650. Vol. 1.

The same thing is true now as it ever was. Any viable organization, to include church organizations, require some form of government and discipline within that government. If you are not in line with that government, you simply are not at liberty to represent that government – certainly not while taking money as a representative. You are free to leave at any time, but you are not free to stay on the payroll if you do not accurately reflect the decided position of the church government.

And yes, I do know that you do not support the stated SDA view on a literal creation week. That much is quite clear. And, that’s perfectly Ok. I have no problem with people who oppose the notion of a literal creation week (such as the vast majority of mainstream scientists) – as long as they are not doing it while claiming to represent the SDA Church on the Church’s dime…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman, M.D. Also Commented

Deal with LSU

Krisztina: You must at least have dinner with these professor and listen to what they have to say before you can really begin to form some opinion about what they deserve. Several contributors on this forum are treating these professors like a lynching mob would an accused man, trying to kill the accused before the trial or trying to not even have a trial. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Sean please, at least consider it. I know you guys are all fired up about this and you have been thinking about it a lot. Eternity is at stake. You have a reputation to uphold. I know, I get it. But please consider they way you would like to be treated if you were in the wrong. Please be more cautious, tread lightly so that if you ever get into a fix and have to eat your words they are not so bitter.

I have talked to the professors. I have spoken at LSU twice. I lived in the Loma Linda area for 11 years. I have first hand knowledge of what is taking place at LSU. This, together with the witness of LSU parents, students, and the LSU professors themselves is beyond question. The deliberate undermining of fundamental SDA doctrinal positions has been going on at LSU for decades. This is no exaggeration. I’ve been personally involved for over 5 years.

As far as treating others as I would like to be treated, I guess I would love it if others would simply send me money regardless of anything I said or did. How about you? Care to support my personal bank account?

You see, even if a person would want to be paid for doing his/her own thing, independent of the organization or client(s) which he/she serves and to which he/she is dependent for a paycheck, the reality is that payment is supposed to be the result of delivery of the specific product which is being paid for by the client. Anything else is theft from the client. That is, regardless of a person’s desire to be paid for the delivery of goods other than that desired, is a moral wrong.

LSU is especially guilty of this moral wrong because of the fact that they are trying to cover up the actual product that they are delivering to students. They do not admit in their PR advertisements or on their website or anywhere else that I can find that most of their science and many of their religion professors believe in and actively promote theistic evolutionary ideas to their students – directly counter to the clearly stated views of their namesake, the SDA Church, on this fundamental doctrinal issue. This is very deceptive on the part of LSU.

I myself would not think to deliberately steal either time or money from my employer. And, I would not think to deserve anything else but being let go if I did continue to deliberately do so. It just wouldn’t be rational of any employer to maintain and employee who will not do what he/she is being paid to do…

Again, this isn’t personal. My words are not “bitter” against anyone on a personal basis just for believing differently than I do about doctrinal issues. Some of my best friends are agnostics and a few are determined atheists. And, I don’t think that such views are a basis for salvation since I don’t think knowledge or a lack thereof saves or condemns anyone in and of itself. Salvation is based on motive, the motive of love, not knowledge. It is how you use the knowledge you have that is important for salvation.

Now, this isn’t to say that true knowledge is therefore irrelevant or unimportant. That’s not true at all. If it were true, I wouldn’t be contributing to websites like this one or my own website. True knowledge is the basis of conscious hope. Many may be saved who did not have a conscious realization of their bright future while living on this Earth. However, I think all would agree that having a conscious realization of our Hope in Jesus is very valuable to have here and now. This is why I work so hard on issues such as this…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Deal with LSU

Krisztina: Sean are you really asking people to leave the church?

I’m asking those who claim to represent the Church on the Church’s dime to actually do what they are being paid to do – i.e., accurately represent the Church’s stated “fundamental” positions to the world. If a paid representative cannot do this, that person should resign or be let go from employment.

You certainly wouldn’t expect the Catholic Church to continue to pay one of their own representatives to blast cherished Catholic doctrines from the pulpit or classroom – right? How about the Latter-day Saints? How about Coca Cola? – or any other viable organization? “A house divided against itself cannot stand” – right? Why then should anyone think the SDA Church should continue to pay people who are in fact doing just that? – attacking what the Church, as an organization, claims are its most fundamental “truths”?

We are not talking about the imposition of civil penalties here, so please don’t bring up the usual comparisons to the inquisition. Such comparisons are only attempts at inflammatory red herrings that are really irrelevant. The case at hand is simply a matter of supporting a viable organization by only paying those to represent the organization that actually represent the organization. Not just anyone and everyone is qualified to be a paid SDA representative – regardless of his/her otherwise magnificent educational background and qualifications to get paid to work elsewhere.

Beyond this, LSU is trying to hide the fact that many of its professors are directly attacking fundamental SDA ideals in their classrooms. At the very least you should be open and honest and transparent about what you are doing. Why try to hide this activity?

I think even you would admit that parents, students, and the SDA Church membership at large have a right to know what they are paying good money to support. It is a moral wrong to make it appear that you are providing a particular product for purchase when you are actually delivering something quite different in practice. That’s called stealing – wouldn’t you agree?

Now, I ask you, what’s so “complicated” about asking for openness and transparency from LSU? – at the very least? This request is downright obvious and simple to the candid mind. There is simply nothing complicated or difficult about it.

What’s so difficult or complex about being open and honest?

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Deal with LSU
If you take on the title of SDA, you should pay your tithe monies to the organized SDA Church – otherwise, you really don’t believe that the organization of the Church itself is inspired by God and ultimately in God’s hands. It is not up to us to divert God’s money from the organization of His Church – if we in fact believe that the SDA Church organization is important to God.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


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