Wow, praise the Lord, this affirmation from the CCC is …

Comment on CCC Requests “Decisive and Conclusive Resolution” from LSU by Vicki Gillham.

Wow, praise the Lord, this affirmation from the CCC is a great encouragement! That’s interesting about the book Icons of Evolution. [edit]

Dear Adventist in High School, may God bless you and comfort your heart. As a college and high school teacher myself, I am deeply grieved to hear that in your comments that it seems you are having a negative experience with some people in our church, or feeling that things are so divided. Although we have different perspectives on matters, yet still the love of Christ should prevail in our relationships with one another as we are working toward what is best- that’s something I have been learning recently myself, that it seems with time and patience, and with the Lord’s guidance and help, we can work things out and love one another even though there are many differences among us.

Being young should not be a barrier to being valued for what you have to share, as the Lord’s church was started by young people, Christ’s disciples were very young, and in times of crisis God has even spoken directly through children when the adults were to hard-hearted to hear His voice.

I pray that you will not be discouraged, and that rather than relying on people who can so easily make mistakes, you may draw closer and closer to Jesus and fall in love with Him. For me, growing up, that’s what has made the biggest difference in my life. Now, I can’t say that I’m very old, because I was in high school and college not so long ago, but I can share with you, that is what made the biggest difference for me. Praying for you 🙂

Recent Comments by Vicki Gillham

AAA to examine LSU
I believe that we should be especially careful to guard against haveing a spirit of argumentativeness. Satan would like to reduce grand truths by making it seem like one man’s opinion against another’s.

Noble and grand truths cannot be controverted by those who wish to undermine them. The truth is it’s own best defense, we need not put out our own hand to protect it as Uzza did.

Not all the professionalism, scientific jargan or surmisings of mankind can change the fact that God made the world in 6 days, and is creater of heaven and earth.

[edit] Obvious, incontrovertable young earth evidence: Rate of erosion of all the world’s major waterfalls to where they are now shows they cannot have been in place more than a few thousand years. Depth of ocean sediments, the fact that we still have top soil on continents, rate of earths magnetic field decay, etc., etc, etc. Evolution is not “progressive” thinking, it is dark ages ignorance, a terrible pity that people in a modern age of enlightenment would still be willing to accept such ideas. How mankind needs a Savior from sin more than anything else- only when we are free from selfishness and love of sin will we be free to do unbiased, truly objective and scientific research!

Defining Adventism: A poll
Regarding what Bob said, yes I totally agree that there is a time for righteous indignation, as we see in the Character of Christ also, like in the cleansing of the temple. But I think we need to be sure that we are fully in Christ if we manifest that stronger spirit, and are acting in His power rather than using our own power or frustration to deal with something (which is more like Uzza- taking things into his own hands, dealing with the Lord’s business in His own strength).

We really must be very holy people in order to be able to do a good job with this type of work it seems. We must be able to know when to be strong, and when to be gentle- only a very intimate connection with God can help us have the sensitivity to do that right.

Through my personal experience with this issue (as I’ve constantly dealt with this over the recent years- often taking public stands against the majority on issues, and openly fighting for the truth sake against so many liberal forces- sometimes saing things too strongly or harshly, and slowly learning to temper that with gentleness, yet without loosing the force of our message), I’ve come to believe that in most, actually nearly all situations when we are speaking up for truth, it will be MUCH more effective if we temper our words with a degree of calmness, and love, and try to avoid letting anger or emotional-excitement come in. That’s when Satan can take hold of things and cause people to say “oh, don’t listen to her, she’s just always getting mad and speaking out,” etc.

But, regarding Moses breaking the ten commandmants written by the hand of God, I had understood that it was kind of an action done in haste by Moses, though- like striking the rock, and Peter cutting off the soldiers ear. Especially because after that, God didn’t re-write it for him, he had to chisel it all out for himself the second time, was my impression- I’d need to study that again in more detail.

May the Lord give us wisdom as we do this work!

Defining Adventism: A poll
Maybe I should clarify, the quote I quoted above was something another member of this forum posted above as her opinion, it’s not an Ellen White quote.

I don’t feel that anything Sister White says is to strong, because she includes so many explanations, stories, context- and overall has a tone of Christian moderation in what she’s saying, as well as constantly emphasizing the love of God. And she was really a prophet, so some stronger statements that seem like a proclamation of what the Lord has showed her are of course only natural and acceptable. But it’s not natural or good for us to make the same type of proclamation using language that was unique to her- when we don’t have a revelation from God like she did (That’s what I was trying to say).

We can so easily misrepresent the Spirit of Prophecy writings to other people that way, by presenting ourselves as close followers of these words (even speaking like she does), but not demonstrating the same spirit that she did. Because the young people, etc, may not take time to read the Spirit of Prophecy writings, they will just look to our example.

We must be fully as Christ was- “the word made flesh” – fully reflecting the whole beautiful spirit the writings when we present the truths that are in them- so that people can really understand what they are like (because just like “you’re the only Jesus some will ever see,” our lives may also be the only glimpse of the Spirit of Prophecy writings that some people ever get).

Of course, perhaps not everything that Sister White says is appropriate to be used in every situation, just as when she said it she was addressing a specific issue.

The statement from Spiritual Gifts Vol 3 pg 90-91 (right?) seems quite appropriate to the situation about the problem of geological interpretation (about evolution). If you look at the whole passage, you can get a feel for her spirit- even though she says the word “infidel geologists” she’s saying it as a matter of fact, not in an accusatory or emotionally out-of-control way. She is explaining everything, and she returns to talking about the Lord and His greatness- there are gentle undertones of peace, hope and love in all that she’s saying, even if you are stirred emotionally or feel convicted (rather than undertones of cold accusation, unkindness, discourtesy or despair that comes out through the spirit of extremism).

Defining Adventism: A poll
It was said,

Not one dime of church funds should be spent sending ministers to attend these seminars of heresy.

I’m afraid this statement is really to strong. We must be careful to fully reflect the spirit of Christ and the Spirit of Prophecy teachings in all that we say- especially on matters like this we must manifest a reasonable spirit which will help us to build bridges and solve problems.

I’ve heard people saying things in this type of language at times, which I feel is not best- that is to seemingly use Sister White’s manner of speech making statements, but it is not said in the moderate and loving spirit, so it misrepresents the Spirit of Prophecy. People listening who have little experience with the Spirit of Prophecy writings (such as young people) will think “wow, if he/she represents what Ellen White and the Spirit of Prophecy writings are like, then I want nothing to do with that.” Ellen White truly was a prophet- so she sometimes made statements in more the form of a proclamation, perhaps, based on what God had showed her, but we do not have that role.

I really believe that one of Satan’s tactics to destroy people’s confidence in the SOP writings is to cause people to take things to extremes or speak without love, and thus misrepresent them. Sister White herself warned a lot against that kind of thing.

Some people above were discussing the issue of showing love versus speaking truth. But BOTH must be done together at the same time, really. Satan knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and he’s very good at it. He has been doing this with our church for a long time- he causes people to go to extremes and then plays one extreme side against the other. That’s also how He instigates argument and wars all over the earth.

If we examine society, we will find these same elements all throughout it- there almost always is a liberal left and conservative right, arguing with each other, sometimes fighting, sometimes warring. This is Satan’s method. In Christ, in the church, we should be able to somehow rise above these basic dysfunctions of society, rather than perpetuating them. That’s why the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy writings counsel us to avoid all extremes, I believe.

How do you shoot an arrow? You have to pull back to one extreme in order to get the energy to propel it out to your goal of the other extreme- so Satan’s plan for destroying faith and Christianity all along has been to create that tension of extremism (for example pharisaism) which causes people to go to the other extreme in reaction.

That was the exact way that he accomplished the goal of getting the world to accept the theory of evolution to begin with- by causing the tension on the people through the Catholic’s dogmatic control of everyone, and the doctrine of eternally burning hell fire, etc.- which made religion a huge burden that so many people were grateful to be free of as soon as they could find another theory.

In saying “avoiding all extremes” I am not suggesting that we compromise on doctrine in any way -that certainly is not my point. I myself am very firmly fundamentalist in viewpoint and often contend to defend the truths of our faith in my local setting. I am talking about the spirit which we manifest in doing this work of defending truth- that we should be careful to avoid manifesting harshness or intolerance, or taking things out of context, or make Religion seem like a burden to young people through our lack of having a sweet and natural spirit that is filled with love and patience.

These are the two extremes we should avoid also; 1) arguing for more “love and grace,” almost as an excuse for moral compromise (in the name of tolerance), and 2) unsympathetic forcefulness in manner of speaking, or driving issues to an extreme conservative that even Christ and Sister White herself never did.

I hope that we can truly find the beautiful moderation in Christ that helps us to win hearts to Christ, while holding firmly to every truth of God- after the example of our great Model, Christ. “Love will cover a multitude of sins.” 1 Peter 4:8

“Mercy and truth have met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed.” Psalm 85:10

Defining Adventism: A poll
Someone earlier also mentioned that it might be alarming to some that there is an alternative option of only 3 statements for the baptismal vows. I find that very concerning, because it means people coming in may not be required to understand or accept the majority of our beliefs at all. Especially when numbers and sensation seem to be the desired result -like the huge (“Pentecost” -was that the name?) mass baptism that was organized in Central America where something like more than a hundred-thousand people were baptized in a day in order to get the number of our members above the million mark in that division (or something like that).

In Taiwan I have sometimes heard calls being made to groups of non-Christians (ie Buddhist, etc.) to come up to the front “if you want to be baptized this Sabbath (that is without much time to have studies of any kind),” (although recently they have not been saying it that way as much).

It seems that perhaps many things we are seeing in regard to the churches stand on doctrines are in line with the “post-modern ministry methods” ideas being promoted by some leaders in our church. In some places (here at least) conference representatives are openly saying that we should not make our doctrines distinctive to anyone outside the church, as in holding Daniel and Revelation seminars, etc.- or if we do, be careful not to say anything that might offend other churches (such as by identifying Babylon). They say that we should just “celebrate our differences,” that when you’re working together in community outreach programs “who cares (direct quote)” what our doctrinal differences are. I also heard that key world church leaders and evangelists were also complying with this, not being willing to speak clearly when giving Revelation seminars, etc.

As I mentioned before, it seems we should consider carefully what is happening in the investigative judgment right now, especially considering Revelation 11:1 “Arise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.” It seems like many other abuses of God’s grace and disregard for His original instructions, are defining our corporate spirituality. Though God is so longsuffering toward us, and has patiently extended His hand of mercy, the church is in danger of repeating the experience of Israel- in passing the point of probation.

As individuals, however, it seems we should not make any hasty movements or manifest a spirit of extremism. Satan would love that- because he can use that to make charges against us and cause people not to listen to our counsel because they think we are “unbalanced” or not able to control our emotions (we MUST be able to maintain wisdom- keep the relationships and work through love). God still loves His church so dearly, and I don’t believe that the church is past it’s probation yet by any means- even though it does seems to be flirting with it in many ways. God’s patience is so longsuffering and so must ours be- We must act as Christ did toward Jerusalem and Israel of old – loving the people, laboring among them, though standing for the right and speaking the truth- always in love (even any rebuke He gave was with tears in His voice, as Sister White says). It was with weeping that wracked His whole body that He finaly said “Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I longed to gather you under my wings… but you would not.” What sad words those are! Pray that it will not be the fate of our dear people also.