Re Vicki’s Quote “Do you really think it’s possible to separate …

Comment on AAA to examine LSU by ken.

Re Vicki’s Quote

“Do you really think it’s possible to separate science from faith?”

Dear Vicki

I so enjoyed your lovely thoughtful comments. I need a bit of time to digest everything you said and give you a full response. But in a nutshell, ideally I think one should strive to separate science from a faith or non faith bias.

Can people of faith or non faith looks at things calmly and objectively? Certainly and I see this all the time. The danger is if one makes faith or non faith the overlord of science then science must serve that master or mistress. That, in my respectful opinion, is where science can lose its independence and objectivity.

I do respect your points respecting evolution but frankly I don’t see the theory as necessarily neing an atheist conspiracy. Could natural selection be part of a grander, yet still hidden design, that mankind has not yet discovered? Possibly, although I would not categorize myself as a theistic evolutionist. Could there be other factors driving evolution other than mindless evolution? Possibly, although I think that is speculation at this point in time.

I don’t think that micro evolution is an issue is it? Animals do mutate and adapt to their environments. The issue is the degree of this sequential adaptation over what period of time and whether organisms have evolved from the simple to the complex.

I do understand that it is difficult for the human mind to comprehend how such adaptation could start with chemical soup to bring us the vast diversity of life on the planet today. It is certainly easier to comprehend creation of the whole. But I think it is very difficult to comprehend how that vast biodiversity occurred over approximately 4000 years from the subset of animals that came off an ark.

Well it is getting late and all the letters are beginning to meld together on the page.

I’ll continue in a more refreshed vein at a later time.

I hope this finds you in fine spirit.

Cheers
Ken

ken Also Commented

AAA to examine LSU
Re Bob’s Quote

“Ken – the empire that follows Greece is Rome. The division of Rome as predicted in the vision leaves that empire fragmented to this very day. And as predicted attempts were made to rebuild the empire through royal blood line marriages – in fact all the heads of state in Europe were connected by blood line or marriage at one time.

in Christ,

Bob BobRyan(Quote)”

Dear Bob

Thanks again, I appreciate your comments and defer to your scholarship of the Bible.

My point is whether there is anything in Daniel that prophecizes about empires since the demise of the Roman Empire: i.e. British Empire, French under Napoleon, Third Reich, Russian, American, Chinese – happening currently? Not all of these empires are necessarily connected to Rome. What does the bible have to say about them?

Thanks
Ken


AAA to examine LSU
Dear Bob

As always thanks for the biblical edification.

What is the 4th empire?

Just curious, did Daniel predict the rise of Nazi Germany, America, Russia or China?

Thanks
Ken


AAA to examine LSU
Re Kirk’s Quote

“True, but Moses spoke to God which who switched on those lights and inspired Moses what to write. So what exactly are you trying to say – that Moses wasn’t inspired in what he wrote…that its just what anybody could have written? Kirk(Quote)”

Dear Kirk

Thanks for your comments.

I don’t know what inspired Moses, or EGW, or Mohammed, or Buddha, or….

Why, because I wasn’t there and don’t know them. Perhaps they were all divinely inspired. Perhaps God divinely revealed evolution to Darwin. I don’t know that. Takes faith I guess. I prefer rational inquiry without a faith or non faith bias.

Hope that helps and that you are having a grat Sabbath.

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Recent Comments by ken

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Hi Bob

I asked once before and I’ll ask again: what is your background and expertise in biology?

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Re: What every human being on the planet believes?

Empirically, as i don’t have blind faith I could know this, perhaps it could only be a divine being that could do so. ๐Ÿ™‚

Always open to correction though to those that know the absolute truth,

I remain,
Your agnostic friend
Ken


A “Christian Agnostic”?
Re Bob’s Quote

“But we can “observe” that the making of complex systems (and books, and works of art and science) is done by “creators” every day – observable, repeatable, testable. A mechanism proven to work.”

Hi Bob

Thanks for your comments.

This may surprise you but I’m actually intrigued by the design argument. My Dad is a Deist although I’m not of that bent, at least not yet! The laws of nature, i.e. gravity, that even allow the universe to exist are pretty marvelous. Did they arise as a result of a random quantum fluctuation or was their Grand Designer behind it all. If so what is or was the nature of such designer based on what we empirically observe about our universe?

The problem I have with intelligent design within our universe and especially regarding life on earth is theodicy. I do understand how the concept of original biblical sin accounts for the loss of perfection, but I have a very tough time understanding why a God would cause such destruction of his creation based on the disobedience of the literal eating of an apple. I just can’t rationally fathom how the eventual and natural demise of our solar system can be based on Man’s fall. Empirically, through science we can now view the death, and birth, of stars. Was this all caused by eating forbidden fruit?

Thus one must ask: why would a good, compassionate God create a Universe, and sentient life, that suffers and dies? Age old problem, that in my estimation has been allegorically resolved through the Genesis narrative.

Let’s move on to evolution. Micro evolution does not seem to be a problem for anyone. Life does adapt to its environment through genetic change. In my mind the issue becomes what happens over billions of years. After considering everything I have read to date I cannot honestly see an overwhelming case for a young earth. Moreover I have not read or heard anything yet that such a view can be scientifically supported by anyone without a biblical creationist bias. Given enough time great change will occur as evidenced by the vast diversity of life spread over every niche of our planet. Were there kangaroos on the Ark, or did they evolve in an isolated part of the world from whence they could not spread?

I don’t think evolution is a fraud or a hoax. Too many educated people of faith believe and accept it for it to be an atheist conspiracy. Have their been mistakes made and will they continue to be made? Are there dishonest scientists? Certainly. They are fallible humans, just like you and I, after all. But the issue is what does the weight of all the multidisciplinary evidence indicate?

Hope that helps

Your agnostic friend
Ken


Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Yes, I am suggesting that our scientists should also be theologians to some degree. I’m also suggesting that our theologians be scientists to some degree as well. There should be no distinct dividing line between the two disciplines…”

Hello Sean

First of all, thank you Holly for your comments. You have always treated me with civility and charity for which I am most grateful.

Secondly, on reflection, I do hope I was not strident or offensive in my recent remarks. I am a guest here and should behave with the utmost respect regarding my Adventist hosts. After all I was proposing the Chair of ID at an ‘Adventist’ institution! What gall and temerity from an agnostic!

However something Dr. Kime said struck a very strange chord in me: that a Chair in ID at Harvard would be a quantum leap ( forward – my edit) while such a Chair would be a step backward at LSU. I’ m very sorry Wes, but for me to honestly investigate reality such double standard is not acceptable.

I am sad today, because I think I’m coming to the end of my Adventist journey. I really did see ID as a sort of bridge between your faith and objective inquiry about a ‘Grand’ Design. (apologies Mr. Hawkings). Oh Wes , perhaps I am ontological Don Quixote after all, comically tilting towards immovable Adventist windmills. ๐Ÿ™ .

However all is not forlorn because I’ve made excellent friends of the heart here. ;). I won’t forget you.

Good luck in your pursuit of God.

Goodbye
Your agnostic friend
Ken


Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Public association is one thing. Private association is another. While many do not feel at liberty to publicly associate themselves with our work here (for obvious reasons), most who still believe in SDA fundamentals (and who are aware of the longstanding situation at LSU and other places) feel that our work in providing enhanced transparency for what is being taught to our young people in our schools was/is necessary on some level.”

Hi Sean

The irony here is that those that are supporting institutional enhanced transparency are hiding behind cloaks of anonymity. That’s not how you, I, Wes, Bob Ryan, Wes, Bill Sorenson and many others here behave. Imagine if Jesus hid behind a cloak and didn’t proclaim his nature. What legacy of respect would he have left?

Conviction requires courage period.

Your agnostic friend
Ken