I couldn’t help noticing in the E.G.W Notes for this …

Comment on Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation by Ron.

I couldn’t help noticing in the E.G.W Notes for this quarter’s Sabbath school lesson this paragraph. It highlights the real problem with Educate Truth and other conservatives who put themselves in the place of God in the church.

http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Periodical&bookCode=LUH&lang=en&collection=2&section=all&QUERY=Jesus+Christ&resultId=3&year=1908&month=December&day=23

“Christ’s church on earth is to resemble heaven, a temple built after the pattern of things shown in the holy mount. Man must give up his ideas, his plans, and devices, and let God work out His original intentions. The great Designer must not be impeded in His work by human wisdom. His work and purpose have not been understood. Through the miscalculations of man, the church today is so misshapen that it can not be accepted by the great Builder. Human counsel has been so abundant, that individual experience is rare. Men are placed where God should be. God’s plans are turned aside, and men’s measures brought in to fashion and mould. But the great and perfect Designer pronounces the work imperfect. The temple that He is building after the pattern of things in the heavens must have the exact proportions assigned it by the Architect, whose pattern is without a flaw. He has brought the golden measuring rod from heaven, and every worker is employed only as he works under His superintendence, and according to His plans.
There must be no human calculations. God will have as workers, only those who will be laborers together with Him, who will yoke up with Christ, and learn of Him meekness and lowliness of heart. His directions are,” Make everything according to the pattern shown thee in the mount.” Then a temple of heavenly design will be presented to the world, where the divine presence is manifested, and to which is affixed God’s seal.”

Ron Also Commented

Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@BobRyan:

How much post creation evoltion is allowed?


Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@BobRyan</

I never even implied a proto life or anything other than a six day creation. I am talking about what happens after creation.

Sean thinks that at least some Darwinian evolution takes place now. How does that happen?. Did god create the mechanisms originally, and they now happen atheistically, or does He continue to be active in the process?


Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
Sean, So I think I am hearing from you that a Biblical creation model would allow for basically any kind Is htof evolution there is, or which we might discover as long as it is destructive in nature, or is not too complex. is that right? You don’t believe that it is possible to believe that significant improvements are possible and still be a creationist.

Are you able to define that bounday between significant and minor theologically?


Recent Comments by Ron

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Sean Pitman: No one is demanding that they “get out of the church”. . . . . anti-Adventist views on such a fundamental level.

You don’t see how characterizing a dedicated believer’s understanding of truth as “fundamentally anti-Adventist” would drive them out of the church?

I guess that explains why you don’t see that what you are doing here is fundamentally wrong.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Professor Kent: Nothing saddens me more than the droves who leave the Church when they learn that many of their cherished beliefs regarding this evidence don’t hold up so well to scrutiny.

I agree. I am sure that Sean and Bob don’t mean to undermine faith in God, but every time they say that it is impossible to believe in God and in science at the same time, I feel like they are telling me that any rational person must give up their belief in God, because belief in God and rationality can’t exist in the same space. Who would want to belong to that kind of a church?


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Sean Pitman: and have little if anything to do with the main point of their prophetic claims

And by analogy, this appears to be a weak point in the creation argument. Who is to decide what the main point is?

It seems entirely possible that in trying to make Gen. 1 too literal, that we are missing the whole point of the story.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
Regarding falsifying the existence of God through the miraculous:

While it is true that one can’t falsify the existance of God and the Biblical miracles at a philosophical level, it seems to me that it is possible to falsify it at a practical level. For instance prayer for healing. How many families who pray for a miracle for a loved one in the Intensive Care Unit receive a miracle?

While the answer to that question doesn’t answer the question of the existence of God at a philosophical level, it does answer the question at a practical level. After 36 years of medical practice I can say definitively that at a practical level when it comes to miracles in the ICU, God does not exist. Even if a miracle happens latter today, it wouldn’t be enough to establish an expectation for the future. So at a practicle level it seems it is possible level to falsify the existence od God, or at least prove His nonintervention which seems to me to be pretty much the same thing at a functional level.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
@Sean Pitman:
Sean, what is your definition of “Neo-darwinism” as opposed to “Darwinism” as opposed to “evolution”?