Modern Adventism doesn’t have a clue of old and new …

Comment on The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New) by Sean Pitman.

Modern Adventism doesn’t have a clue of old and new covenant spirituality and they have a warped view similar to the writer of this article. All you have to do is consider the quarterlies on Galatians and Romans to see the ignorance reflected in the present SDA theology. It was stated in one place this false idea, “Cain is an old covenant experience…..” This is totally bogus. Cain was an unbeliever who rejected the atonement and future provision God had ordained for salvation, and Abel accept the atonement and exercised faith in the coming provision. Abel was an old covenant believer, not Cain. and Abel reflected all true believers from his day until the coming of Jesus who made that atonement. And true believers today accept in fact what they looked forward to in faith.

You’re confusing the concepts of the historical Old Covenant vs. what may be called “Old Covenant thinking” or an “Old Covenant Experience”… which was always outside of God’s will. Paul speaks over and over again that there was something wrong with Old Covenant experience – where the fault was with the people, not the law of God, in that many people came to the erroneous conclusion that their own works somehow merited favor with God (and the same is true today).

As you point out, this was never God’s intention or plan – not even in Old Testament times. The righteous have always been saved by faith and faith alone in God and His grace for us. And, if you read the quarterlies on Romans and Galatians more carefully, this understanding was presented quite well. After all, it is in the list of SDA Fundamental Beleifs that salvation is only by faith and faith alone – not by our works or efforts to keep the Law. The Spirit of God is given as a free gift to all those who do not resist His call.

Now, of course, once the Spirit is accepted into the heart, the Spirit will cause that person to actually obey the Law of Love (expressed in the Decalogue) as it was originally intended to be obeyed.

Sean Pitman Also Commented

The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
Response to a comment of a friend of mine posted in another forum:

    “Before the way of FAITH IN CHRIST was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, UNTIL the way of faith was revealed. The law was our guardian UNTIL Christ came; it protected us UNTIL we could be made right with God through FAITH. And now that the way of FAITH has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. For you are all children of God through FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS.” Gal3:23-26

Faith is certainly what saves. This has always been true since the very beginning. Even those righteous persons who lived before Jesus was born into this world as a human being, even Moses or David for instance, were not saved by the works of the Law, but by Faith. The purpose of the Law was never to save, but to convict the sinner of a need of a Savior – since all have sinned against the “Royal Law.” It is faith in the Savior that saves. The work of the Law, carefully considered, is to lead us to know that our only hope of salvation is faith in what Jesus, our Savior, did for us and is doing for us. Yet, this faith does not nullify the Law or make the Law pointless when it comes to its job to constantly remind us of our need of a Savior – a saving Power outside of ourselves. Rather, the Power realized through this faith actually enables us to keep the Spirit of the Law as it was originally intended to be kept – through selfless love for God and for our neighbors.

Paul, in his letter to the Romans, makes this point particularly clear:

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. – Romans 3:31

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts… If a man who is not circumcised keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? – Romans 2:13-15, 26

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! – Romans 6:15

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” … So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good… For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. – Romans 7:7, 11, 22-25

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit… The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. – Romans 8:3-4, 7

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. – Romans 13:8-10


The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
Pastor Bill Loveless often used the term “mysticism” in a rather unique way which Mrs. White would have never applied to herself. She often spoke against spiritualism and mysticism as it relates to spiritualism. Here is an example of what she wrote against mysticism vs. true sanctification in Christ:

All this spiritualistic love is a mysticism that saints will not for one moment allow their minds to be drawn away to—considering the presumptuous thought of sanctifying adultery to become lawful. We all need now to come to a knowledge of saving truth by a living, daily, proved experience of the sanctifying of the soul through the truth. Coming to Christ in living surrender of the soul is the coming to a personal Saviour to be a partaker of His divine nature, having overcome the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is by the Holy Spirit’s direct guidance that each believing soul may sanctify himself through love of the pure principles of the truth. (Mrs. White, False Ideas of Sanctification, MS 241, 1902)


The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
Neither Venden or MacCarty believe or teach that faith removes individuality or personality or free will. Rather, as Mrs. White puts is, they promote the idea that faith allows the Spirit of God to create in us growing oneness of mind, character, and purpose with God in our daily walk with Him while still maintaining our own individual personalities.

Here the position of Jesus Christ in reference to his Father is brought to view. While they are one in purpose, and one in mind, yet in personality they are two. May we not learn from this that there is to be unity between believers? There is no reason why one should feel that it is necessary for him to bring others to the exact line of his own individuality. So long as we are subject to the temptations of Satan, we shall each have all we can possibly attend to, in order to maintain a right relation to God, that Christ may do for us his atoning work. And though we may differ in the form of words, and in the expression of our individuality, yet our words may be sanctified, and our characters purified through the sacrifice of Christ. (Mrs. White, R&H, 1907).

This is not spiritualism or mysticism, but the true Christian walk that is also based on faith in the Power of God to lead us in His way.


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Thank you Colin. Just trying to save lives any way I can. Not everything that the government does or leaders do is “evil” BTW…


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Only someone who knows the future can make such decisions without being a monster…


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Where did I “gloss over it”?


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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.

Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).

Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.