@pauluc: What the writers you cite above realize is that …

Comment on The God of the Gaps by Sean Pitman.

@pauluc:

What the writers you cite above realize is that in honestly following the scientific evidence there is 3 things that they must conclude.

1] There is an anthropic principle; the Goldilocks principle the world is just right for life and that this is a highly unlikely scenario and would require a multitude of universes not evident for this to be by chance.

Right… also given that the multiverse theory isn’t scientific since it isn’t testable. It also undermines the basis of science itself since it has the power, like God, to explain anything and everything, however seemingly unlikely (like Arnold Schwarzenegger winner the California Lottery 10 times in a row without cheating – must have been living in the right universe).

2] The evidence for evolution of the complexity of life once established on earth is irrefutable. Darwinian mechanisms may or may not be sufficient but natural mechanisms are most likely

That is certainly their belief, but the assumption that mindless natural mechanisms are “most likely” the explanation is also not a scientific conclusion. This conclusion is a philosophical conclusion not supported by testable or potentially falsifiable science. In fact, as with the evidence of ID behind the anthropic universe or the origin of the first living thing, the evidence for the non-evolvability of high levels of functional complexity by any known non-intelligent force of nature, strongly suggests the need to invoke deliberate intelligent design on at least some level of intelligence.

3] Intelligence and mind are natural consequences of a highly complex brain that arose by these natural mechanisms.

Again, that is certainly their belief, but this belief in the creative potential of mindless natural mechanisms is, yet again, not based on testable science.

This is the scientific position. Whether God was working through these processes is a philosophical not a scientific question.
You enamoured as you are with statistical inference twist these arguments about to invoke some grand theory of intelligent design when none is required.

The scientific position is that intelligent design is detectable if the phenomenon in question is well beyond the potential of any as yet known non-intelligent force of nature while being within at least realm of human level intelligence and creative potential. That’s the only scientific position that is entertained by these men on the topic of origins (to include the origin of the universe, life, and the diverse complexity of life). The assumption that even if RM/NS isn’t capable of doing the job for certain features of living things that some other mindless force of nature likely did it is not science. It’s as simple as that. This “theory” is not testable in a potentially falsifiable manner. It therefore produces no useful predictive value. And, therefore, isn’t scientific.

In terms of my 3 points of science you I think would agree with the anthropic principle
On point 2 all I have read from you says you dispute the evidence and argue that most scientists are honestly deceived. You do not agree on dating methods ice cores varves volcanic ocean ridges, continental drift fossil evidences and geological columns, genomic sequences and phylogenies, history of insertions of repetitive elements; all evidences that most scientists including those above would accept in good faith as likely true.

Dating assumptions or notions about the age of life on Earth have nothing to do with the notion that the creative mechanism was some mindless mechanism. Nothing. There are many intelligent design advocates who believe in long ages for life existing and evolving on this planet. They just don’t believe that the evolution was completely undirected by mindless forces of nature.

Also, nested hierarchical patterns in the genetics of living things say absolutely nothing about the likely mechanism involved in producing the high levels of functional complexity with which they are associated.

Again, your assumption that the mechanism was most likely a mindless mechanism, that intelligence was most likely not required, is not based on any kind of testable scientific theory. It isn’t science. It is just a philosophical assumption on your part and on the part of most mainstream scientists.

On point 3 your have this idea of some overarching intelligence that is God like but may or may not be natural that is responsible for anything that is more complex than inanimate objects.

Not quite. Intelligence is not required to explain the evolution of low levels of novel informational complexity within living things – complexity which is beyond that of inanimate objects. However, intelligence is required to explain levels of functional complexity within biosystems that goes beyond low levels of functional biological complexity – i.e., beyond the level that requires a minimum of 1000 specifically arranged amino acid residues.

No one, not even you, knows of any viable natural mechanism that can explain the evolution of biological complexity beyond this level without invoking intelligent design on at least the human level of intelligence.

With such a gulf between what you will accept of reality it is no surprising there is little common ground between your views and conventional hypothesis driven science.

My views are testable in a potentially falsifiable manner. Unfortunately, yours are not…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

The God of the Gaps
@Ervin Taylor:

Indeed… something we actually agree on. 😉


The God of the Gaps
Pauluc:

You wrote:

Thanks for responding although I do think you mischaracterization my position. I do believe I have articulated it sufficiently already on this site. To justify it again is unnecessarily tedious.

I may be rather dense here, but as far as I can tell the only thing you’ve been clear on is your notion that whatever mechanism produced life and its diversity on this planet, it wasn’t intelligent. After all, it was you who wrote:

Darwinian mechanisms may or may not be sufficient but natural mechanisms are most likely.

If by “natural mechanisms” you mean mindless natural mechanisms, then how is this statement remotely scientific? It’s a sincere question on my part. I fail to see how you’ve presented any testable argument regarding your proposed mechanism for either the origin or diversity of life beyond very low levels of functional complexity? How is the hypothesis of a mindless mechanism, without any input from any intelligent source of any kind, testable? How is it scientific?

I have never pretended my religious views are hypothesis driven. They are my merely my honest attempt to understand the infinite and are clearly amenable to change just as my science is open to growth and revision.

Great! Again, I’m happy if a faith that is independent of empirical evidence works for you. It just doesn’t work for me is all. I know you think that’s a horrible thing, but that’s just the way I am. For me, a useful faith is something that is based on testable evidence that can potentially be proved wrong – exactly the same as any valid scientific theory.

I do not pretend that I am expert on all areas and disregard established expertise but I accept in good faith. My scientific expertise can be established from my published peer reviewed work.

I’m sure you’re quite good at what you do. That doesn’t mean your being scientific when it comes to your notions as to the mechanism that likely produced life and/or its diversity on this planet. Please, present something testable to support your assertions in this regard. Otherwise, I fail to see how your position for the powers of mindless natural mechanisms can rationally be called “scientific”? How does your hypothetical mindless mechanism produce more predictive power than a natural mechanism that has the backing of an intelligent mind of some kind?

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


The God of the Gaps
@pauluc:

In contrast to my acceptance of complementary roles of science and religion and faith you have a view that denigrates blind faith as a path to understanding of the transcendent and claim you must only accept in religion what is supported by the predominance of scientific evidence.

I’m glad empirically-blind faith works for you. It just doesn’t work for me. I go where I see the weight of evidence leading. I put very little stock in emotion-driven faith or some deep impression in the soul or a “burning in the bosom” when it comes to the truth of Jesus, being born of a virgin, his miraculous life, death, and resurrection – and other such miraculous claims about the true nature of empirical reality. Where is the empirical evidence to back up such fantastic claims?

Sorry. I have a weakness for the rational…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


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