True science and religion will agree, as Mrs. White pointed …

Comment on Science and Faith Walking Hand in Hand? by Sean Pitman.

True science and religion will agree, as Mrs. White pointed out, since they both have the same Source. If they didn’t agree, there would be a problem with one or the other.

To reference a recent article by Leonard Brand on this topic:

“In true science there can be nothing contrary to the teaching of the word of God, for both have the same Author. A correct understanding of both will always prove them to be in harmony.”— Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 258.

If we have a correct understanding of how science operates what its limitations are, as well as its strengths—we can have increased confidence that harmony really does exist between true science and true religion.

http://ssnet.org/blog/2013/01/what-science-can-and-cannot-do/

Consider also that there have been many religious ideas and interpretations of the Bible that have been effectively falsified by scientific discoveries – the clear weight of empirical evidence. Even certain interpretations of Biblical prophecies promoted by the early Adventist pioneers were proved false by the empirical evidence that clearly countered their predictions (i.e., Jesus simply didn’t show up as predicted). Truly then, if the testable claims of the Bible are determined to be inconsistent with empirical reality the Bible rightly loses credibility (either that or the specific interpretations of the Bible that have been falsified lose credibility). Of course, for those honestly searching for truth, God is quite able to provide them with plenty of empirical evidence that is more than adequate for a rational belief and faith in the credibility of His Word.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

Science and Faith Walking Hand in Hand?
The Biblical authors and Mrs. White disagree with you. They all agree that the signature of God is identifiable in nature – in the works of His own hands.

“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” – Romans 1:20


Science and Faith Walking Hand in Hand?

Sean said, “True science and religion will agree,….”

Of course you are wrong Sean. There is no way by anything that is rational in science that could or would affirm that “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” That is pure supposition. And science would never concur nor affirm such a reality or even possibility.

You do realize that I’m directly quoting Mrs. White here? “In true science there can be nothing contrary to the teaching of the word of God, for both have the same Author. A correct understanding of both will always prove them to be in harmony.” — Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 8, p. 258.

Also, it is not “pure supposition” that a God or at the very least a God-like being is required to rationally explain the origin of the universe and of living things on this planet. This requirement is based on the very same logical inferences used to proposed intelligent design theories in multiple scientific disciplines (like forensics, anthropology and even SETI science).

Creation is a miracle. Science does not consider miracles any part of natural law science. Every miracle of God is beyond natural law science.

All forms of intelligent design, even human level intelligence and creative abilities, are “miraculous” in a certain sense. That doesn’t mean, however, that science is therefore unable to detect their activity. Science can detect that certain artifacts discovered in nature are mostly likely the result of deliberate intelligent design – with a very high degree of predictive value that is also, at the same time, subject to at least the potential of falsification.

Sure, you can affirm a miracle has happened. When Jesus healed the blind man, all the people could see a miracle had happened. But no one tried to explain it by way of natural law science. In fact, they all affirmed it was far beyond natural law science. The blind man himself said the same thing.

Again, science is not limited to hypotheses or theories that invoke only mindless naturalistic processes. Science is perfectly capable of hypothesizing the requirement for very high levels of intelligent design to explain various artifactual observations.

Science can affirm that something is here but can not affirm how it got here by way of a miracle. By definition a miracle is “super natural”, meaning, beyond a natural law explanation.

Science doesn’t need to explain the exact mechanism for how the designer produced a super advanced alien space craft, or even a simple highly symmetrical granite cube, before science can determine that such things required the input of intelligence. You’re confusing the scientific ability to detect the need for various levels of intelligent design with the requirement to explain how the intelligent agent did the job. This simply isn’t required in order for science to detect design – even God-like intelligence and design.

So you may well discredit a lot of phoney ideas science presents for origins as being inconsistent. And evolution has no consistent argument for origins. But neither does creation. And you can not prove creation by science.

You cannot absolutely prove anything by science. However, you can most certainly use scientific methodologies to produce highly useful predictive value for the “God-only” hypothesis.

The bible affirms itself by its own evidence by way of prophecy. Sure, the prophecies come true and we can affirm this evidence like the healed blind man. But the evidence only affirms that miracles are beyond scientific “falsification”. Hopefully, no one denies evidence based on scriptural declarations of history and future events. But this will give us no “scientific” evidence the God created the world by way of a miracle. None of us were even here to testify that we saw what God did as in the case of the healed blind man.

The determination of the credibility of prophetic statements is based on the empirical comparison between that which was predicted and the available evidence that the prediction came true in real history. Such an evaluation is based on the historical sciences. Such can be tested in a potentially falsifiable manner. Therefore, prophecy is not “self affirming”. Useful prophecies are affirmed by external empirical evidence – i.e., a form of science. And, the consistent fulfillment of such adds credibility to their source, the Bible, and everything else the Bible says that cannot be directly tested in a falsifiable manner…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Science and Faith Walking Hand in Hand?
@pauluc:

Science is based on skepticism – the effort to try to falsify the hypothesis in question.

In any case, my professor did say what he said. I remember it vividly because he didn’t actually use the word “baloney” in his description. I kind of had to water what he really said down a bit for publication here and on SSNET. I’m not sure what original reference he got it from, if any outside of his own independent conclusion. After all, it is downright obvious that all scientific methodologies are based on a very simple rational concept to help weed out potential truth from error.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Recent Comments by Sean Pitman

Science and Methodological Naturalism
Very interesting passage. After all, if scientists are honest with themselves, scientific methodologies are well-able to detect the existence of intelligent design behind various artifacts found in nature. It’s just the personal philosophy of scientists that makes them put living things and the origin of the fine-tuned universe “out of bounds” when it comes to the detection of intelligent design. This conclusion simply isn’t dictated by science itself, but by a philosophical position, a type of religion actually, that strives to block the Divine Foot from getting into the door…


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

Why is it that creationists are afraid to acknowledge the validity of Darwinism in these settings? I don’t see that these threaten a belief in God in any way whatsoever.

The threat is when you see no limitations to natural mindless mechanisms – where you attribute everything to the creative power of nature instead of to the God of nature.

God has created natural laws that can do some pretty amazing things. However, these natural laws are not infinite in creative potential. Their abilities are finite while only God is truly infinite.

The detection of these limitations allows us to recognize the need for the input of higher-level intelligence and creative power that goes well beyond what nature alone can achieve. It is here that the Signature of God is detectable.

For those who only hold a naturalistic view of the universe, everything is attributed to the mindless laws of nature… so that the Signature of God is obscured. Nothing is left that tells them, “Only God or some God-like intelligent mind could have done this.”

That’s the problem when you do not recognize any specific limitations to the tools that God has created – when you do not recognize the limits of nature and what natural laws can achieve all by themselves.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Bill Sorensen:

Since the fall of Adam, Sean, all babies are born in sin and they are sinners. God created them. Even if it was by way of cooperation of natural law as human beings also participated in the creation process.

God did not create the broken condition of any human baby – neither the physical or moral brokenness of any human being. God is responsible for every good thing, to include the spark or breath of life within each one of us. However, He did not and does not create those things within us that are broken or bad.

“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?'” Matthew 13:27-28

Of course, all humans are indeed born broken and are in a natural state of rebellion against God. However, God is not the one who created this condition nor is God responsible for any baby being born with any kind of defect in character, personality, moral tendency, or physical or genetic abnormality. God did not create anyone with such brokenness. Such were the natural result of rebellion against God and heading the temptations of the “enemy”… the natural result of a separation from God with the inevitable decay in physical, mental, and moral strength.

Of course, the ones who are born broken are not responsible for their broken condition either. However, all of us are morally responsible for choosing to reject the gift of Divine Grace once it is appreciated… and for choosing to go against what we all have been given to know, internally, of moral truth. In other words, we are responsible for rebelling against the Royal Law written on the hearts of all mankind.

This is because God has maintained in us the power to be truly free moral agents in that we maintain the Power to choose, as a gift of God (Genesis 3:15). We can choose to accept or reject the call of the Royal Law, as the Holy Spirit speaks to all of our hearts…

Remember the statement by Mrs. White that God is in no wise responsible for sin in anyone at any time. God is working to fix our broken condition. He did not and does not create our broken condition. Just as He does not cause Babies to be born with painful and lethal genetic defects, such as those that result in childhood leukemia, He does not cause Babies to be born with defects of moral character either. God is only directly responsible for the good, never the evil, of this life.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

Again, your all-or-nothing approach to the claims of scientists isn’t very scientific. Even the best and most famous of scientists has had numerous hair-brained ideas that were completely off base. This fact does not undermine the good discoveries and inventions that were produced.

Scientific credibility isn’t based on the person making the argument, but upon the merits of the argument itself – the ability of the hypothesis to gain predictive value when tested. That’s it.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Gary Gilbert, Spectrum, and Pseudogenes
Don’t be so obtuse here. We’re not talking about publishing just anything in mainstream journals. I’ve published several articles myself. We’re talking about publishing the conclusion that intelligent design was clearly involved with the origin of various artifactual features of living things on this planet. Try getting a paper that mentions such a conclusion published…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com