Look, I’ve read all of the articles that you’ve presented …

Comment on Mandates vs. Religious Exemptions by Sean Pitman.

Look, I’ve read all of the articles that you’ve presented to me. Then, I presented some counter evidence that made good sense to me. You didn’t respond in kind. That’s fine, but don’t expect to simply cite the arguments of those who hold a very minority position within the scientific/medical community and expect no push back or challenge – especially when it comes to some of the arguments that have been forwarded by those such as Dr. Malone that are clearly false and/or misleading. He just loses credibility when he makes some of the outlandish claims that he has made. And, Tom Bartlett (of The Atlantic) is by no means the only one to point this out – even though I think he was pretty even-handed in his article (interesting that you start off the discussion with a Vanity Fair article that you found “interesting”, but jump all over me when I cite an Atlantic article back to you). Many scientists and prominent doctors have come out against the claims forwarded by Dr. Malone. What do you do with their arguments? Do you just dismiss them out of hand?

There are very good reasons why the vaccines are strongly supported by the significant majority of scientists and physicians around the world, to include the significant majority of epidemiologists. Interestingly, contrary to the claims of Dr. Malone, 88% of epidemiologists think that persistent low vaccine coverage in many countries would make it more likely for vaccine-resistant mutations to appear (Link). This only makes biological sense given that the immune system doesn’t work in the same way as antibiotics work (Dr. Malone seems to be confused here). Most epidemiologists also think that health care providers should be required to be vaccinated against COVID-19:

Hospitals and other healthcare facilities should require employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19, according to a consensus statement by the Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America (SHEA) and six other leading organizations representing medical professionals working in infectious diseases, infection prevention, pharmacy, pediatrics, and long-term care. (Link)

Sure, as previously mentioned, the decision to vaccinate children is not as clear-cut as it is for vaccinating adults. However, this also doesn’t mean that the decision to do so is without good evidence or that Dr. Kulldorff knows something that no one else knows. That’s just not true. The evidence that he mentions is limited in that he fails to address quite a bit of evidence that seems to work against him. That’s the problem. He simply doesn’t seem to effectively address the totality of evidence that is currently available on this question.

As far as me being “hostile” toward you, what have I said that you interpret as hostility? – beyond a simple disagreement? You’re the one saying that you find my position “disturbing” and that I’m the one who “drank someone’s Koolaid” and occasionally respond in ALL CAPS like you’re shouting at me. Where have I responded to you in such a “hostile” manner?

I’m not questioning your intelligence. Graduating AOA is wonderful. The fact remains, however, that this simply isn’t helpful to me or to anyone else who might question your position on this topic. While I don’t treat patients, as a pathologist, I work in the hospitals around here on a daily basis – particularly dealing with the hospital labs. I see the COVID patients in the ICUs. I see their lab results deteriorate over time. I know when they die and why they die. We lost 10 people over the last couple of days to COVID – to include three less than 50 years old. My brother-in-law, the well-known pulmonologist Dr. Roger Seheult who works in S. Cal and runs an ICU there also graduated AOA. He directly treats COVID patients and personally holds their hands as they die – the vast majority of whom are unvaccinated. This includes young otherwise healthy people as well. Roger is begging people to get vaccinated – for very good reason. He sees the devastation that COVID is causing firsthand. He’s seen his ICUs filled well beyond capacity with the unvaccinated. Rationing care has been a real problem. This is a real pandemic that has fast become a pandemic of the unvaccinated due to the influence of those like Dr. Malone and the misinformation about vaccines that he, and a handful of others like him, have been spreading around.

The risks associated with the vaccines are minimal in comparison to the risks of getting infected by COVID-19 – they truly are. This is apparently true even for young otherwise healthy people – particularly when one considers the damage that a COVID-19 infection can do to otherwise young healthy people who don’t end up dying, but end up with long-term injuries instead. So, if you still think otherwise, please do explain the mechanism to me – because Dr. Malone certainly doesn’t do so in any way that makes any sense. If you can do better, I’m all ears.

Sean Pitman Also Commented

Mandates vs. Religious Exemptions
I’m just saying is that if you think that what you say on blog sites like this one doesn’t really affect people, especially when you present yourself as an MD, you’re mistaken. I know that people have been influenced against taking the mRNA vaccines by what you’ve said here in this forum. You’re not simply being neutral in what you’ve posted. You do, in fact, come across as being opposed to the mRNA vaccines – also noting that you didn’t get vaccinated yourself and chose to get infected by the live COVID-19 virus without pre-established vaccine-based immunity. You’ve also come across as being strongly against any response by me to the articles that you’ve referenced where I point out how these papers really do not actually undermine the efficacy and/or the relative safety of the mRNA vaccines. Clearly, you don’t come across as being neutral on the topic.

And, such comments have an effect on people – they really do. While that upsets me, again, it’s more important to me to allow for those who disagree with me to also post their comments rather than to only allow what I personally think is true to be posted.

Beyond this, no one is twisting your arm to post our comments here. You can post or not post as you wish. That’s entirely up to you. But, don’t expect that I won’t push back when you post comments that I think will increase the risk of those who read what you have to say…


Mandates vs. Religious Exemptions
The difference between us is that I see people in the ICU, as does my brother-in-law Dr. Roger Seheult (a pulmonologist in S. Cal.). You might see the occasional person die from COVID-19, but those who work ICUs in larger medical centers see far too many people die from COVID-19 – to include young people (not just those in nursing homes). You might offer the vaccine to those whom you see, but if you present arguments to them like the ones you’ve presented here, such advice most certainly does result in increased injuries and even death. For me, that’s a big deal. You might call it “weird and overly dramatic” if you want, but for me the effort to save lives and reduce injuries is neither “weird” nor “overly dramatic”. I mean, that’s why I do what I do…

Now, you say, “The discussions that I have on blogs like this are my personal thoughts and concerns. They don’t reflect the way that I actually practice primary care medicine on a daily basis.”

That would be great if this were a private conversation, but it isn’t. It is a public conversation and your words have an impact on the hundreds who read this blog every day. I mean, in a very real sense, especially given that you include your title “MD” with your name, and often point out that you are a medical doctor when you post to this blog, you are, in fact, practicing medicine when you post public comments like you do. You cannot simply say, “I don’t actually follow my own advice that I post in blogs when I practice primary care medicine on a daily basis.” Your influence simply isn’t limited to what you do face-to-face with patients in your clinic. Your influence also extends to what you say and do in front of people outside of your daily medical practice.


Mandates vs. Religious Exemptions
Well, I’m glad you go at least this far… although I still think that the kinds of arguments you present here really do put people’s lives and health at increased risk. I know you don’t agree, but that’s how I see things from my own perspective.

Now, I’m fine with you, and those who think like you, having the ability to freely share your opinions – despite how mistaken and damaging I personally think these opinions may be. That’s just the nature of living in a free society – which I think is far more important than restricting the freedom of speech.


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Thank you Ariel. Hope you are doing well these days. Miss seeing you down at Loma Linda. Hope you had a Great Thanksgiving!


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Thank you Colin. Just trying to save lives any way I can. Not everything that the government does or leaders do is “evil” BTW…


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Only someone who knows the future can make such decisions without being a monster…


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Where did I “gloss over it”?


Review of “The Naked Emperor” by Pastor Conrad Vine
I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.

Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).

Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.