La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief

Educate Truth shares the following article published by the Adventist News Network as a service to readers.

By Mark A. Kellner

La Sierra University (LSU), a Seventh-day Adventist Church-owned school in Riverside, California, will have a year to demonstrate its faithfulness to church teaching on creation, at which time its current accreditation by the Adventist Accrediting Association, or AAA, will be reviewed. The school’s denominational accreditation has been extended to December 31 of next year, with reaccreditation subject to an on-site review by a AAA panel in the second quarter of 2012, and AAA board action in October 2012.

The unusual action followed two years of controversy that has roiled the southeastern California campus and generated extensive comment by Seventh-day Adventist leaders and members across North America and the world church. The La Sierra decision, during which a wide range of options were debated, came among several actions taken the regular biennial AAA board meeting held at the General Conference’s headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, on April 4, 2011.

“Although La Sierra University has deviated from the philosophy and objectives of Seventh-day Adventist education,” the voted action reads, “it is moved that the university be granted an extension of accreditation to December 31, 2012 in order for the university to act upon its commitments and implement changes and enhancements” involving the teaching of origins at the school. The action extending the university’s current term of accreditation did not address the prospect of a new term, up to five years in length.

Accrediting executives’ rationale

“This was a challenging and complex decision,” said Lisa M. Beardsley, director of the General Conference Education Department. “The AAA board took into consideration the report of the AAA team that visited the campus in November 2010, and events that have transpired since, such as the actions of the institutional board, the finding of its special subcommittee, and the open letter published in March by the university. After careful and prayerful consideration, the board expressed its will as a body by means of a written ballot so that all views could be honored.”

Ella Smith Simmons, a general vice president of the world church and member of the AAA board, said, “Given the recent acknowledgement made by the La Sierra University board and administration, this action seeks to create a bridge for the university to meet its stated commitments and the accrediting requirements to give priority to the standards of Seventh-day Adventist education in harmony with the Church’s official beliefs.”

“The AAA Board has attempted to find a balance between punitive and redemptive help to the university in support of the LSU Board’s recent statements,” added Larry Blackmer, vice president for Education of the North American Division and another AAA board member.

Membership in the Adventist Accrediting Association board includes the director and associate directors of the General Conference Education department; General Conference vice presidential advisers for education; directors of education from each of the church’s 13 world divisions; one representative each from a college/university board chair; a college/university president; an academic vice president or dean; a registrar or admissions officer; a finance officer; an academic department chair of education; a union conference education director; and a local conference education director. Also included are three individuals with international Adventist educational experience; two education specialists not employed by the church; and the General Conference officers — specifically the president, secretary and treasurer.

What lies ahead

In order to retain AAA accreditation, the school administration and board of trustees will, among other steps, have to demonstrate that it is honoring its commitments to “continue to endorse the official Seventh-day Adventist Church statement on creation”; “resource and nurture faculty in an atmosphere in which official Seventh-day Adventist Church positions on creation and origins are taught and honored”; so that the Church’s creation position “is presented in instructional contexts” and also is “presented as the university’s position on origins.”

The university will also have to show it is fulfilling its pledge to develop “specific goals” to assist “LSU students of other faiths to find meaning in and understanding of Seventh-day Adventist values and official beliefs, including those regarding creation and human origins.” According to one of the examples set forth in the voted action, “decisions regarding faculty appointments and development [must be] aligned with board and university commitments to ensure the acceptance and teaching of official Seventh-day Adventist beliefs regarding creation and origins within instructional and co-curricular contexts.”

The AAA is also requiring that LSU’s “board governance structure and function are enhanced to provide fuller participation in its fiduciary responsibility for the university,” again, in keeping with a commitment the school has made.

Decision was a surprise

Following a protracted discussion that lengthened a scheduled three-hour meeting into four hours, the AAA board voted to extend the school’s current church-based accreditation, but did not offer the full new term La Sierra had anticipated. On February 8, La Sierra announced a AAA site visit team’s recommendation “that ‘in their opinion, and subject to AAA approval, La Sierra University should receive the maximum accreditation possible under AAA guidelines.'” The school has since removed that statement from its website.

The accreditation issue — which includes denominational recognition by the church and qualifies a school for certain appropriations from denominational funds — arose following a two-year controversy over La Sierra’s teachings on human origins. Beginning in 2009, critics, including some church leaders, laypersons and LSU students claimed that the school taught the theory of evolution to biology students as the explanation for the origin of life.

Seventh-day Adventists believe “God is Creator of all things, and has revealed in Scripture the authentic account of His creative activity. In six days the Lord made ‘the heaven and the earth’ and all living things upon the earth, and rested on the seventh day of that first week,” as noted in the church’s Fundamental Beliefs.

La Sierra responds

In a statement to Adventist Review, La Sierra spokesman Larry Becker said, “Although La Sierra University has taken affirmative steps toward resolution of the controversy regarding how creation and evolution are taught in its classes, the AAA Board believed that it is necessary for more time to transpire in order for the university board, faculty, and administration to demonstrate its determination to put in place the steps that the faculty and administration have agreed with the board to implement.”

The LSU statement continued: “University administration appreciates the extension of its current full accreditation as a Seventh-day Adventist university through December 31, 2012. The AAA Board has outlined a specific process moving forward, and we recognize the need for these steps. We look forward to the AAA visit to our campus next year. The board, administration and faculty are already working together to ensure that we provide the outstanding Adventist education desired by our students, our constituents, and our Church.”

La Sierra President Randal R. Wisbey and Ricardo Graham, Pacific Union Conference president and La Sierra trustee board chairman, admitted La Sierra’s shortcomings on the subject in a March 9 open letter.

“We found that only 50 percent of the students surveyed agreed or strongly agreed that our Adventist view of creation was presented, and only 40 percent agreed or strongly agreed that our Adventist view was supported,” Wisbey and Graham wrote. “This is not acceptable, and we apologize,” they added.

Further, “instruction at the university, while being strong in many areas, has not adequately presented the denomination’s position on the subject of creation,” according to the document.

And, “there is some evidence that students have not always been respected for their belief in the Biblical creation position,” the March 9 La Sierra statement said.

According to the AAA’s accreditation handbook, “Accreditation of an institution by AAA signifies that the institution has a purpose appropriate to service the educational needs of those in its constituency and has the resources, programs, and services sufficient to accomplish the institution’s goals.”

School’s history

Founded in 1922 as a Seventh-day Adventist academy, La Sierra grew over the years and became a full-fledged college in 1946. In 1967, it merged with Loma Linda University and became that school’s liberal arts wing, reorganizing as an independent institution in 1990.

In 2010, the school reported 2,098 students had registered at the start of the current school year. Last year’s registration of 440 freshman surpassed 2009’s freshman class of 348 by 26.4 percent, La Sierra said in a statement.

386 thoughts on “La Sierra University Granted Window to Show its Faithfulness to Church’s Creation Belief

  1. La&#032Sierra&#032BIO&#032Student: Dear commenters,Do not be so quick to judge La Sierra University. Many of the accusations made are half-truths and do not show the entirety of the situation. The only way you will be able to understand La Sierra’s Bio dept. is by becoming a student, or auditing a class. So just as the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to see if the words of the apostles were so, go to LSU to see if these things are true.

    So, please inform us, in detail, about all of these “half truths!” We would like to have more objective facts concerning these matters.

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  2. Especially to Ron Stone and Professor Kent–Sorry I’ve been so slow replying to your earlier posts to me. There’s always a lot going on around here and this old lady has a hard time keeping up for some reason or other! Anyway, here’s how I see things:

    I fully understand that qualified scientists are hard to come by and I’m not sure just what the answer is–but God does and if we are truly in earnest He can, and will, provide for our needs. (The Israelites did not know how they were going to cross the Red Sea–but God made a way. They did not know where their food was coming from–but God rained down Manna from heaven. They did not know where their water was coming from in the wilderness but God brought it out of a rock for them.) And I know God has a way to get us out of the mess we are in. It’s not going to be easy but, with His help, it can be done!

    “Our heavenly Father has a thousand ways to provide for us of which we know nothing. Those who accept the one principle of making the service of God supreme will find perplexities vanish and a plain path before their feet.
    “The faithful discharge of today’s duties is the best preparation for tomorrow’s trials. Do not gather together all tomorrow’s liabilities and cares and add them to the burden of today. . . .
    “Let us be hopeful and courageous. Despondency in God’s service is sinful and unreasonable. He knows our every necessity. To the omnipotence of the King of kings our covenant-keeping God unites the gentleness and care of the tender shepherd. His power is absolute, and it is the pledge of the sure fulfillment of His promises to all who trust in Him. He has means for the removal of every difficulty, that those who serve Him and respect the means He employs may be sustained. His love is as far above all other love as the heavens are above the earth. He watches over His children with a love that is measureless and everlasting.
    “In the darkest days, when appearances seem most forbidding, have faith in God. He is working out His will, doing all things well in behalf of His people. The strength of those who love and serve Him will be renewed day by day.
    “He is able and willing to bestow upon His servants all the help they need. He will give them the wisdom which their varied necessities demand (The Ministry of Healing, pp. 481, 482)”.

    How? I don’t know–but this I DO know, He isn’t going to provide ANYTHING until we as a people are truly in earnest about this–and other problems we are having to deal with. I also know we do have some good scientists out there (I know one personally) who would love to have time to write and publish but are so burdened down with teaching they simply do not have the time and energy to do it, This whole area is far bigger than LSU but LSU does show us where we are headed if we don’t wake up and make some drastic changes in how this situation is handled. (It should have been dealt with decades ago!)

    The thing that continues to puzzle (and bother) me is how so many non-Adventists, qualified scientists can–and are–writing and publishing the “Creation Gospel.” If you don’t believe this is happening just go on the internet and search for “Creation” sites. I did–and was amazed at what is available out there–and disappointed that there is so little (that I can find) from us. I’m far from being a computer “geek” so I could be missing something–and hope that if I am someone will please let me know. (My niece was here this past weekend and informed me that there is plenty out there in our TV ministeries but I don’t have access to those at the present. But I still think we need the printed page “out there.”

    And I am curious as to how these non-Adventist sites and organizations can apparently attract a lot of competent creation scientists and we apparently cannot. I realize the salary situation is very unfair and I wonder why–but is that the only reason? If not, what else is the problem?. Let’s get this situation out in the open and deal with it.

    One site that I ordered a very good book from a while back told me they have a group of Creation scientists who are prepared to go to any church or groups of people and hold a series of meetings on the subject–and the price was rather reasonable. I would love to have heard what they had to say but I declined. Somehow I just couldn’t handle the thought of having non-Adventists scientists come to our church and teach a group of Adventists the truth about creation! (We have many exceptionally intelligent young people in our ranks so why don’t we have a group like this one who can go out and “do likewise.” Where are we failing our youth–and our God? I was always taught that we are supposed to be the “head and not the tail” of all things scriptural! Excuse me if I’m wrong, but at this point I can’t see that we are even a very good “tail” in many respects. Why?

    If we are unable to support the very thing on which our whole reason for being “SEVENTH-DAY Adventists” hinges, we had better close down our churches and our whole educational system and go into hiding! God is quite capable of raising up another group of people who WILL preach the whole truth and who WILL defend the first chapters of Genesis and His holy Sabbath! And you really can’t defend the 7th day Sabbath if you can’t–or won’t–defend a Creator and His Word–beginning with Genesis 1! (I have no question but that some–if not all–of these sincere, dedicated people will someday find and accept the Sabbath but for some reason God seems to be holding His hand over that right now.)

    I also feel that our problems go a lot deeper than just LSU and evolution . As I understand it there are other of our institutions that are also infected with this same problem (and others–though not at quite to the same extent that LSU apparently is) not only in their science classes but also in theology classes. Since when did God say homosexuality was even a little bit okay because some folks are “just born that way”? Some kids are born with terrible tempers–and other bad habits–but does that make it okay for them to indulge in temper tantrums for the rest of their lives? Hardly! Every one of us are “born that way” in one way or another but that does not excuse us from sinning!

    I recently bought a book called “The Greatest Hoax on Earth” by Jonathon Sarfati–noted as being the most powerful anti-evolutionist around. (To me, that title should belong to an ADVENTIST’ scientist!) This book is his response to “The Greatest Show on Earth” by Richard Dawkins (who is known as the “world’s greatest champion of atheism…and evolution.”) This book is “touted as an unanswerable challenge to those who believe in divine creation.” Sarfati takes Dawkins on one point at a time, and, according to the press release for this new book, refutes everyone of them. (My copy of the book just came and I haven’t had time to read more than a few pages of it so far.) There are a lot of other very good books out there–even for children in grade school and so far what I have read is excellent.

    Do we realize that evolutionists are working on books, DVD’s, etc, in comic book style that preach the “truth” about evolution to preschoolers and on up through grade school? And, of course, all the science classes in high school teach evolution. By the time this crop of young people finish high school and are ready for college they will be thoroughly convinced that the Bible is wrong. So, as one site remarked: “It is already almost to late to give just Bible studies.” After all, if young adults don’t believe the Bible is true they aren’t going to be interested in hearing what It has to say about Creation or anything else! Satan has stolen a march on a sleeping church and we are already in a lot of trouble, my friends.

    My big question still remains: Where are OUR books, video’s and DVD’s that meet this great need? No wonder God calls us “Laodiceans!”

    We need well illustrated books for children–if evolutionists can create them we certainly should be able to. I haven’t actually seen any of their books yet but they are either out there or at least “in the works.” (I live up on a small mountain and, though I do still drive I don’t go into the “big cities” where the big bookstores are located and I live quite a ways from the nearest ABC.)

    Just one caution: Very few of us are “scientists” so, in dealing with this, writers need to (at least some of the time) “put the cookies on a lower shelf so the children can reach them!” If others can do it we should be able to do it also.

    I really don’t mean to be critical but I am alarmed over the situation we now find ourselves in. Where do we go from here? I don’t mean to be skeptical but I just can’t see the confirmed evolutionists at LSU suddenly having a complete change of heart and enthusiastically beginning to teach our belief in creation. As far as LSU’s leadership is concerned so far I haven’t been able to sense any real change of heart there either. (“Can the leopard change his spots?)

    However, the God that can part the Red Sea, bring water out of a rock, and send manna from heaven can certainly handle this situation–BUT it will not happen until we as a people confess our own sins, repent over our own failure to take care of this evil decades ago and truly turn our backs on the sins we are each guilty of. All of us need to a lot of soul-searching and praying!

    Whether old or young, none of us know how much time we have left. Within the last month I have lost three dearly loved family members–my sister, my brother-in–law (they were getting close to their seventieth wedding anniversary and still deeply committed to each other) and my sister-in-law. Of course they were all very old and tired so, while sad, their deaths weren’t unexpected. But we have also lost young friends along the way–so none of us have any promise of “tomorrow!

    “Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.” “Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts” (2 Corinthians 6:2; Hebrews 3:7, 8)”

    “You who are resting your hope on self are building on the sand. But it is not yet too late to escape the impending ruin. Before the tempest breaks, flee to the sure foundation. “Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.” “Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.” “Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of My righteousness.” “Ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.” Isaiah 28:16, R.V.; 45:22; 41:10; 45:17.”
    Will the “good ship Zion” ever make it safely into the heavenly port? Absolutely! No question about it. God says it will and He has never been wrong once. The question is, “Who will be aboard Her when that time finally comes?” Will you? Will I? That depends entirely on whether or not we are “safe to save.” Affliction will NOT rise up a second time and God is not about to take anyone to heaven who will cause another “fall” with all of it’s train of heartache and deaths .and woe! Let us make sure that our connection to our God is strong and secure now and when that time comes we will be ready to “sail in” with her!!

    Lydian

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  3. Re Charles Quote

    “Study the Bible honestly, fairly, and prayerfully. It will be clear to you as well.”

    Hi Charles

    Thanks for your comments.

    I think that when folks interpret days as days but in other places days as years, based on their unique method of interpretation, things aren’t really clear.

    Some Christians interpret creation literally, and some allegorically. That seems clear to me.

    That’s my honest, fair appraisal, having read the Bible.

    Your agnostic friend
    Ken

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  4. ken –

    Interpretation? Some aspects of scripture may require “interpretation”. Most is quite clear – as is the story of Creation. Brief, but clear.

    Study the Bible honestly, fairly, and prayerfully. It will be clear to you as well.

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  5. Ron&#032Stone&#032M&#046D&#046: The “hostile climate” Kent is referring to is the attitude that our SDA administrators both in the educational areas and our Church must be responsible for doing their jobs, part of which is to foster, endorse (by word and action)and support our SDA biblically based beliefs in our churches, schools, and other institutions.

    No, Ron. The hostile environment is one in which any SDA-employed scientist is viewed with suspicion and distrust. This is fueled when any statement–oral or written–by a Church-employed biologist gets dissected, vivisected, resected, disrespected, and judged as evidence of infidelity to SDA fundamental beliefs in a mean-spirited public forum. Even if a statement is theologically unimpeachable, it gets the same rude treatment if the individual failed to arrive at his or her position by the one true method sanctioned by the one true source of knowledge at this website.

    Tell me: have you been hostile toward even unnamed scientists at this website by making generalizations about which institutions have heretical faculty? Or do you claim to show no hostility at all?

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  6. Oink: @Professor Kent: Hmmm. Now why would a well-placed SDA biologist who is not hostile to Genesis 1 sense hostility by, of all places, EduTru?

    The “hostile climate” Kent is referring to is the attitude that our SDA administrators both in the educational areas and our Church must be responsible for doing their jobs, part of which is to foster, endorse (by word and action)and support our SDA biblically based beliefs in our churches, schools, and other institutions.

    This is feared by most liberals and progressives because they wish to act separate and “free” from our denominational beliefs.

    We see an egregious example here in the LSU Biology Dept. and administration. However, many other examples exist, the Pacific Union Conference being the major instigator for most,

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  7. Professor&#032Kent: Tell me: have you been hostile toward even unnamed scientists at this website by making generalizations about which institutions have heretical faculty? Or do you claim to show no hostility at all?

    I have no personal hostility towards anyone mentioned here, since I don’t know them personally enough to have any hostility. However, I AM hostile to some ideas which they seem to be promoting, since they are undermining our SDA bible-based beliefs.

    I AM offended and totally embarrassed regarding those who claim to be “guardians” of our SDA Church, collecting salaries from our tithes/offerings and then not doing the job we chose them to do.

    Those in positions of “power” should have their words and actions discussed and even “dissected” if needed, no matter who is “offended.”

    You will notice that those “offended” have not addressed this issue directly, either on this forum or elsewhere, but hide behind either silence or pre-packaged PR statements. [edit]

    I challenge those involved to “have it out” in a public forum with some of the “disrespectors” so we all can hear and see first hand who is saying what.

    I suggest a couple of the Biol. Profs, Wisbey, Graham and whoever else wants to join in “go at it” with Shane, Sean, Walter Veith, Dave Assherick and others they would choose.

    Lets’ see whose prevails or even shows up!

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  8. Professor Kent,

    If those that believe that evolution is the explanation to our origins and the earth is millions of years old end up leaving the church, it won’t be because they believed in in all of the church’s fundamental beliefs but one.

    I have worked with those that call themselves “progressive” SDA’s and they not only don’t believe our FB on origins, they don’t believe many more (possibly most) of our FB’s. They call themselves SDA, but behave fundamentally different than the vast majority of those who are loyal and follow our beliefs. The Sabbath is not respected whatsoever. Personal business is conducted and church is skipped. They drink alcohol and eat every form of creature that ever lived, with no regard for our health message. They promote homosexuality and gay marriage believing that society today is more enlightened than our ignorant forefathers. They are SDA in name only, or maybe only because they grew up in an SDA family. They are cultural Adventists, if there is even such a thing.

    So back to your original premise, will the tug-o-war between WASC and AAA cause them to leave? NO. They were on their way out for a long time. We did not push them out, they disbelieved, and doubted, and formed beliefs and attitudes that caused them to leave.

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  9. Eddie,

    I spoke on the phone with two SDA biologists yesterday (one an old pal, another a more recent acquaintance, both well placed in SDA teritiary institutions). Your comments regarding Southern’s ongoing difficulty finding “creation biologists” are apparently widely known amongst an inner circle. One of these individuals says that SWAU is also struggling to find suitable candidates. Another institution will be needed something on the order of 5 candidates in the next few years.

    Both individuals indicated that the hostile climate generated by Educate Truth’s tactics have been detrimental and counterproductive. So be it.

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  10. His message had flaws and was inconsistent with scripture. I feel sorry for him and his followers today. I am sure that the belief of many was genuine and is now sadly shaken.

    I think that such deceptions are the work of Satan. It is part of a successful campaign to desensitize mankind to what is coming and to bring ridicule upon those who believe in end-world scenarios.

    The end of the world will come and it will be soon. How soon? No one can tell but we can see Biblically that time is short. A month? A year? 10 years? 20 years? It does not matter. Jesus told us to “watch” and to be ready.

    Those who have not made the preparation of “heart” for that event will wail in sorrow when realizing what they have spurnned. The evidence is compelling and in plain sight. Search the scriptures diligently and KNOW…

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  11. Professor –

    If anyone is “jeering” or subjecting others to “ridicule and abuse” – that is wrong. I have not seen it here and it is not the way of Jesus. Certainly, most of the “ridicule and abuse” comes from those Evolutionsists who believe that true Creationists are superstitious and deluded – because the idea of an all-powerful being who can “speak” the world into existence simply does not meet the muster of scientific reason.

    Having said that, it is absolutely the position of the SDA movement (from the beginning) that God created this earth in seven literal days just a few thousand years ago (6000 more or less). True, SDAs are by far in the minority in that belief. But that means nothing – the majority has often been wrong.

    It seems to me that the “argument” (for lack of a better word) of creation vs evolution is not the subject of this forum. The position of evolutionist ideas within the SDA faith is – if I understand correctly.

    Again, the SDA position within the debate is that of a miraculous (outside the limits of science) creation by an all-powerful God. If that is not what you believe, join the millions or billions in the world who think similarly. Why would you want to be an Adventist and pretend to believe in literal Creation if indeed you believe that we are here by some other way?

    If you are truly a believer in the SDA faith, then you believe in the literal creation. This belief is at the very core of the foundation of our existence. It is the essense of the faith.

    I’d like to mention one other thing: SDAs also believe in a very near return of the Creator (Jesus) to this world. (it’s what the word “Adventist” means) At that time there will be a “harvest” of the ones who have nurtured a personal relationship with Him. This event will be equally miraculous (and unscientific) to the “Creation” in that people will be “caught up to meet him in the air”. Not only that but they will be given new and perfect bodies that will live forever. We believe that after this event, the world will be devoid of any human life for 1000 years – at which time we will return to the earth and it will be re-created in perfection – as it was 6000 years ago.

    If I cannot believe in a literal and miraculous creation about 6000 years ago, how can I believe in what I know about what I just said?

    If you are not an SDA – have not studied the foundational beliefs of this faith – then perhaps all of that sounds a bit bizzare to you. I would urge you to really study what you claim to believe – if you are indeed a Seventh-Day Adventist. The story of Creation is not the biggest stretch if one must apply the laws of science or reason as understood by the world today.

    What I say above, I say with a sense of genuine care, respect and concern. Please don’t take any of it as ridicule or abuse. It is NOT intended as such. Please know that I respect your right to have your opinion and disagree. But the reality is that if you do not believe in what Seventh-Day Adventists believe, then you are not one. I can only hope (or wish) that you are.

    In Christian love

    Charles

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  12. Charles: I think that such deceptions are the work of Satan. It is part of a successful campaign to desensitize mankind to what is coming and to bring ridicule upon those who believe in end-world scenarios.

    I am concerned that Satan similarly uses the hard-line creationists, who disrespectfully ridicule, mock, and taunt others having different views, especially evolutionists. We see a lot of this here.

    It’s saddest when the jeering is directed toward fellow Seventh-day Adventists. And what could be more repugnant than when it is done, of all things, “In Christ?” Satan takes much delight in this.

    Next, we’ll likely see more justification of the ridicule and abuse.

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  13. I won’t say anything else about “jeering” etc. Everyone can read the blog and draw their own conclusions. I may be guilty of some harsh comment as well and I do not mean to offend anyone. I am sorry if I have.

    Having said that, I still believe that those who cannot accept miraculous creationism (outside of our limited “scientific” understanding) should not be teaching in SDA institutions.

    The SDA church has strong fundamental beliefs and is mainly supported by people who wholly embrace them as core values. The church is a relatively small refuge from a world who has embraced a plethora of notions about the realities of how we got here, what we are here for, and where we go from here. We can tend to be a bit protective of the fundamentals, and I think we should be. It cuts to the core of our reason for existence.

    Pretty much all of Adventist institutions were founded upon these values by sacrificial giving from people who embraced a calling to finish the work of God upon this earth so that He can come back. Any of the parts of this message (including the first 7-day week about 6000 years ago) are integral to the whole message.

    SDAs are loving people and wish all people to embrace the message that is the reason for organizational existence. But if you join, please embrace the SDA message and don’t come in with the idea of corrupting it. (said with love) If you hold to ideas about “theistic evolution” (broadly speaking), you are not embracing this message. Simple fact. Is this not an obvious conclusion? Is there a better way it should be said?

    In Christian love –
    Charles

    2 Peter 3:9
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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  14. Professor&#032Kent: Lydian, some of our schools are looking for faculty RIGHT NOW. If you haven’t heard, they are hard to come by right now. I’m told that SAU, SWAU, WWU, and PUC are all struggling to find SDA biologists right now.

    The morale among applicants for biology professor vacancies is at an all-time low. Last year a couple of conservative SDA applicants at SAU were rejected because they weren’t sufficiently passionate about creationism, but fortunately for them they were warmly welcomed by other SDA colleges. This year SAU has a dearth of applicants, in part because some potential candidates are now reluctant to apply. One candidate recently snubbed SAU’s offer of a job, so SAU’s Biology Department is currently in a bit of a precarious situation, reaping what it sowed.

    The combination of low wages (often much lower than pastors and denominational teachers at all levels), negative publicity surrounding LSU, and uncertainty about who will be targeted next by Educate Truth is very discouraging to potential prospects. The paucity of candidates will become even more acute during the next 5 years when a handful of professors retire at AU.

    Good luck to the SDA Church (particularly SAU and SWAU) in finding qualified biology professors who are even SDA, let alone SDA plus passionate about creationism.

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    • @Eddie: Statistical assertions, vast and sounding statistical, these assertions about plummeting morale and impoverished professors shuddering at exposure by this site. Where’s the evidence? Or to be taken by, er, faith?

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  15. @ Sean Pitman:

    We all know that when conspecifics compete with each other, and the fittest survives, this is natural selection (Darwinism) in action. Accordingly, we all recognize that natural selection can never produce cooperative behavior, or altruism, among animals.

    We are then faced with a dilemma, however: bees, which produce a nasty venomous sting, exhibit remarkable altruistic behavior, in which individuals sacrifice their own lives for the good of the colony. Which traits did God create in these bees: the stinger (an evil trait), or the altruistic behavior (a Godly trait)? Or could both of these traits somehow have evolved?

    This leads me to my next question: wouldn’t the evolution of altruism in bees, termites, and other animal societies qualify as a trait that exceeds what is possible via your model of evolution? And one more question follows: is it okay for SDAs to believe or teach that cooperative behavior and altruism can evolve in animals?

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  16. Re Charles’ Quote

    “I understand exactly what he is saying but what he does not realize is that he is foolishly trying to put God into limits to which God is not subject. God is totally beyond our ability to fathom ”

    Hi Charles

    Thanks for your interesting comments.

    By your logic, aren’t Adventists equally as foolish limiting an unfathomable God by their unique interpretation of the Bible?

    Ironically
    Your agnostic friend
    Ken

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  17. Well here I sit, wallowing in my “superstitious” beliefs.

    Yep, that is it. I actually do believe in a Great and All-powerful God who stands outside of the boundaries of time and science and actually does have the power to form a man out of dirt and breathe into this element-composed lifeless form, the “breath of life”. Imagine my foolishness? In all of the great discoveries of science, even a clue as to what constitutes the “breath of life” cannot be found. We know when it is there, and we know when it is gone. How can it be tested?

    But science is all about discovery and will not acknowledge that some crucial things about our existence are a part of the secrets of God – not to be discovered by man. That essence of LIFE is one of them. I know when it is present and I know when it is gone. Where it comes from is not a thing I can discover. So for my feeble mind that cannot discern the secret of what actually constitutes LIFE, I must indulge in FAITH – that is “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”.

    I look at myself, others, and my surroundings. I realize that even though there is much reality that can be studied and explored by science, all of it still goes back to the existence of LIFE – which, again, is NOT something that “science” has been able to touch. And so I indulge in accepting something on FAITH – or without proof – simply because I can observe that I do exist.

    My faith has given me a sort of blissfulness. Yes, it is because I believe in such an all-powerful Being that can form a person from dirt and put life into it within a literal day, that I have FAITH. Thus, I also find it not a stretch to believe that the same Great Being has a similar power that can bring the millions back to life who once existed but whose bodies are now totally decomposed. There is no “scientific method” involved and that event will defy any natural laws with which we have any familiarity.

    My belief here is what makes me an “Adventist”. Yes, I believe in a literal return of the Creator who will exercise those non-scientific powers that raise the dead back to life. I am a “Seventh-Day” Adventist because I believe that the world was created in seven literal days through his non-scientific power.

    If studies in faith and science cause conflicting conclusions, which one has the greater authority? Truth is absolute, is it not? I see our realities as totally dependant on the existence of life. Science knows nothing about life – beyond simply being able to observe that it does exist. One cannot study Biblical history in one discipline and science in another, and come to two opposite true conclusions.

    A very brilliant person recently told me that he does not believe in the “hocus pocus” of a God creating by “His Word”. He said he “has no problem” with the existence of a God but that this God is constrained by natural laws to use them to perform his creative works. I understand exactly what he is saying but what he does not realize is that he is foolishly trying to put God into limits to which God is not subject. God is totally beyond our ability to fathom – especially in the fallen state that we live in on this earth today. That is why we must have FAITH. That is why He said, “Except …ye become as little children…”

    Sadly, so-called “science” and “religion” have found themselves on the opposite ends of a continuum of explaining existence and reality. They are opposite and mutually exclusive conclusions and there is no reconciliation of the two belief systems.

    The SDA church’s existence is absolutely and wholly based on the FAITH side – on the extreme end of the continuum. The view is so extreme as to be found as foolish or deluded by the adherents of the other extreme. There can be no conciliation between the two views.

    To the “scientist”:
    Call me a fool or superstitious about such an all-powerful God, if you like. Yes we are a minority in today’s world but we are the Seventh-Day Adventist church and we have “FAITH” – meaning that we accept as reality those things we cannot see, test, or prove. You cannot prove how we got here so if you must try, please join the armies of the scientists of the world who believe as you do and allow us the HOPE (yes “hope” based on “faith”) that is the reason for our existence. Argue with us if you like, but please do not try to dishonestly destroy us from within.

    Matthew 18
    3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

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  18. La&#032Sierra&#032BIO&#032Student: Dear commenters,
    Do not be so quick to judge La Sierra University. Many of the accusations made are half-truths and do not show the entirety of the situation. The only way you will be able to understand La Sierra’s Bio dept. is by becoming a student, or auditing a class

    Yet any student at LSU who lists a complaint about the LSU biology program here is slammed by the LSU evolutionist “faithful” from LSU – so clearly there is no such thing as “we will take whatever criticism comes from our biology students”.

    In fact this whole thing got raised to the level of Educate Truth to start with precisely BECAUSE the LSU admin would not take observations from their own biology students who noted the “obvious” facts which prof Bradley himself stated clearly to the press!

    How deaf and blind would we have had to be to “miss that”???

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  19. BobRyan: Indeed – that is the problem that Darwin recognized and that Dawkins admits to – and that 3SG 90-94 highlights.Pretty much everyone sees this – but the TEs – and of course “TEs exist” as some people would like to remind us. in Christ,Bob

    That was not me. It was a quote from Mark Finley’s article.

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  20. Bob

    I recall my incredulity some years ago when I reviewed the letter written by:

    Michael Zimmerman
    Professor of Biology
    Butler University

    Prior to reading that letter, I was totally lukewarm on the topic of creation vs evolution. Yes, I was raised in the SDA church and took the creation story for granted.

    It was not the letter itself that extracted my passion. It was the fact that thousands of “Christian” pastors and leaders had signed the horrible document.

    In those days, I downloaded each and every section of the “pastors” – which also listed their denominational affiliations. It was with a cringe that I ran searches on “SDA” or “Adventist” – hoping not to see that a SDA pastor would have signed it. I did not find one in that day. Would I find one today if I ran the search again? I hope not but I no longer think that I could be so sure.

    Much of the world has embraced the idea that we evolved from lower forms of life – which ultimately supposedly came from nothing? Why? I don’t know – the idea is not even logical to me. Logically, my own existence is the greatest evidence of the scriptural account of “God” Who created everything “miraculously”.

    Sadly, those who deny their Creator by embracing this spurious notion, will be “lost” unless they find their way. A right relationship with God will bring to them to an understanding. It involves a spirit of submission and humbling before their Creator.

    “…worship Him Who MADE Heaven and Earth…”

    Here is the introduction to the “clergy letter” – written by an athiest biology professor who regards scripture as “beloved stories” that have some timeless value….

    Has that old Dragon (Satan) gained some ground or what?

    For too long, the misperception that science and religion are inevitably in conflict has created unnecessary division and confusion, especially concerning the teaching of evolution. I wanted to let the public know that numerous clergy from most denominations have tremendous respect for evolutionary theory and have embraced it as a core component of human knowledge, fully harmonious with religious faith.

    In the fall of 2004, I worked with clergy throughout Wisconsin to prepare a statement in support of teaching evolution. We were called to action by a series of anti-evolution policies passed by the school board in Grantsburg, WI. The response was overwhelming. In a few weeks, nearly 200 clergy signed the statement, which we sent to the Grantsburg school board on December 16, 2004. Additionally, groups of educators and scientists sent letters to the Grantsburg School Board and to the Superintendent of Schools protesting these policies. In response to all of this attention, as well as the efforts of others, the Grantsburg School Board retracted their policies.

    The outpouring of support from clergy around the country encouraged me to make this a nationwide project. If you want to read more about it or join us in sharing this important perspective, click here. Encourage your clergy to consider signing the statement and please feel free to link to these webpages.

    The Clergy Letter Project has also sponsored annual Evolution Weekend events. These events provide an opportunity for congregations around the world to come together, in the way each feels most comfortable, to discuss the compatibility of religion and science. By doing so, we are educating thousands and elevating the world-wide discussion of this important topic. If your congregation would like to participate in an Evolution Weekend event, please contact me.

    Most recently, The Clergy Letter Project has created a data base of scientists interested in working with clergy members to answer questions about all aspects of evolution. To view this growing list, click here (If you are a scientist and would like to be added to our data base, please send me a note.)

    Sincerely,

    Michael Zimmerman
    Professor of Biology
    Butler University

    Send your comments to me at mz@butler.edu

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  21. Charles: “The plain teaching of the Bible doesn’t allow for the earth evolving over billions of years: in Scripture there’s no room for God starting the process and evolution finishing it. God finished what He started in Creation week.”

    Indeed – that is the problem that Darwin recognized and that Dawkins admits to – and that 3SG 90-94 highlights.

    Pretty much everyone sees this – but the TEs – and of course “TEs exist” as some people would like to remind us. 😉

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  22. BobRyan: Indeed – that is the problem that Darwin recognized and that Dawkins admits to – and that 3SG 90-94 highlights.
    Pretty much everyone sees this – but the TEs – and of course “TEs exist” as some people would like to remind us.

    Why do you so often describe Darwin and Dawkins in such favorable terms, as if we should be paying attention to them? Why would you align them with Ellen White? What’s your agenda?

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  23. Professor&#032Kent: I hope, believe, and pray that LSU will remain squarely within the Church’s fold.

    I too would love to see LSU finally change to the point of being squarely within the Church’s fold.

    I am also glad that some of those here who at one time trumpeted ideas about the SDA church not messing around with any of LSU’s wild offbeat agendas – now suggesting that LSU should do an about turn and entere squarely into the center of the SDA Church fold.

    What a great idea!

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  24. I just checked the news. No earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, tidal waves that were worth mentioning. Just a few wars and rumours of wars.

    Guess it was just a quiet day – unusual this near the second coming of Jesus.

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  25. In the post above, I attempted to put her quote (only the first bold paragraph) into bold to make it stand out. I did close the “bold” html but the system did not include it. I don’t know how to edit my post so I am just explaining what happened in a second post. I should have just used quote marks, I guess.

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  26. BobRyan: The text is so clear that it would be shocking if even one SDA would then suggest that TE be taught at any of our schools after having read that statement.

    You seem to forget your own words: if someone believes in TE or suggests that TE should be taught at our schools, they are not an SDA. They cannot be. Just ask Cliff Goldstein about this. Thus, your post is nonsensical by your own critical higher reasoning.

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  27. Charles: I’ll show my ignorance.
    Just what is 3SG-90-94?
    Sounds like a SOP referrence but I am not sure.

    I’ll let Bob explain. Perhaps he can do so without mention of my name or my supposed views, or Charles Darwin’s or Richard Dawkins’ name. Actually, I’m thinking that much of it is in Patriarchs and Prophets, but as a few insiders here recognize by now, Bob seems to really like the zing of 3SG 90-91 (and more recently 3SG 90-94).

    It’s very important stuff. “Don’t leave home without it.”

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  28. So, what is “evolution”. I have always understood the concept to mean that life has moved from lower forms to higher forms.

    Make it simple for me. In the scheme of evolution, has mankind evolved from a lower plane to a higher plane over time? Or has mankind moved from a higher plane to a lower plane?

    The true author of evolutionary ideas predicted that we would become as Gods.

    Genesis 3

    1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

    3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Mankind has been on the quest of the serpent’s promise (verse 5) for 6000 years. Is he closer or further from the realization of it?

    And is our lifespan longer? Or Shorter? Our vigor? Our intellect?

    Are we still dying? Or do we just pass through a door at death?

    What does God say?

    What does the serpent say?

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  29. Ron&#032Stone&#032M&#046D&#046: Sorry Prof, your ananlyis is completely wrong. Look at all the programs on 3ABN, Hope Channel, Amazing Facts, Amazing Discoveries from numerous churches around America preaching about “creation” Genesis 1, and similar subjects. They’re on virtually every day, usually many times per day.

    You’re right: lots of programming. However, most of the programming balances origins with other important spiritual and lifestyle issues, and makes an explicit appeal to join the SDA Church rather than “get out or we will force you out.” And most of the viewership does not take the dogmatic view that it’s “our way or the highway.”

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  30. Wow! It’s about time something get’s done. After 2 years of teaching nonsense and being given another year to get their act together seems an awful long time. Is it that complicated that it should take a whole year to say “Hey, let’s get back to the Bible truth or remove those unwilling to teach it?”

    I hope and pray their changes will be sincere and from the heart. Thanks for being a voice for our church Sean. It gives hope that your work and the work of others is not in vain.

    Debbie Rockwell

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  31. “…there are those who accept theistic evolution but still believe the Bible is true…”

    The Bible absolutely refutes “theistic evolution”. If someone accepts TE and also thinks he believes the Bible, then he is not very acquainted with his Bible.

    Among a host of other examples, Jesus demonstrated the level of power that He has when He raised Lazarus from death. Jesus made a point of the miraculous nature of what he was going to do by letting Lazarus stay in the tomb for three days – until the decay of his body was advanced and the smell permeated the area. Then Jesus called him to life – instantly. There was no evolutionary or scientific process involved. It was Jesus working on the level of the “miraculous” – power we can know that He has but the ways are not revealed.

    The Bible clearly teaches a seven literal day creation by the miraculous words of Jesus. Sure He has His way of doing it but that is not revealed to mankind – probably because we could not understand it anyway. Prior to Moses, the genelogies were passed from generation to generation until Moses wrote them down. The historical timelines of scripture are presented as accurate in much detail. Either, one accepts it as true, OR one does not. But in no way can it be reasonably construed as an evolutionary process.

    There are many things about scripture and the realities of our world today that builds my confidence in scripture. One of them is the weekly cycle (regardless of which day one observes as holy). The whole world observes the same weekly cycle. The days are the same (except for language differences) and they are all seven day weeks. No one on earth can choose to observe a six or an eight day week. Where did this universal week come from? Can anyone point to any reasonable evidence that there was a time when there was no weekly cycle?

    We have our days – created by the turning of the earth relative to the sun. We have our years – created by the trip of earth around the sun. Our monthly cycles come from the trip of the moon around the earth. From whence comes the week? It is just as universally observed as are the days, months and years. But there is no astronomical function that marks the week. God gave the week to the first Man and it has been passed on through the generations from the creation to us.

    Why does this seem so clear and so many cannot see it? The most ardent teacher of evolution locks his office door and heads home for the “weekend”. Whether he honors any day or not, he is still bearing a testamony to the fact that this earth was created in seven literal days.

    Maybe someone disagrees. That is okay. I honestly don’t see how, but your Creator has given you the ability and the choice to draw your own conclusions. The evidence is abundant in the way I just described and hundreds or thousands of other ways as well.

    Most respectfully,
    Charles

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  32. Professor&#032Kent: You’re right: lots of programming. However, most of the programming balances origins with other important spiritual and lifestyle issues, and makes an explicit appeal to join the SDA Church rather than “get out or we will force you out.” And most of the viewership does not take the dogmatic view that it’s “our way or the highway.”

    Yes, there’s “balancing” but not with Creation vs. “evolution as fact.”

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  33. Professor&#032Kent: Bob Ryan won’t do it, Sean Pitman won’t do it, David Read won’t do it, Shane Hilde won’t do it, Ron Stone won’t do it, Wesley Kime won’t do it, Ken won’t do it, Dawkins won’t do it, Provine won’t do it, Meyer won’t do it, Eddie won’t do it, and Professor Kent won’t do it.Okay. But millions of Christians do marry TE and the Bible. How sad that they succeed in such an illogical venture. Let’s pray for them.

    They “succeed” by self-deception–the easiest deception in the world!

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  34. As Ellen White put it:

    God will not be trifled with. It is in the time of conflict that the true colors should be flung to the breeze. It is then that the standard-bearers need to be firm and let their true position be known. It is then that the skill of every true soldier for the right is tested. Shirkers can never wear the laurels of victory. Those who are true and loyal will not conceal the fact, but will put heart and might into the work, and venture their all in the struggle, let the battle turn as it will. God is a sin-hating God. And those who encourage the sinner, saying, It is well with thee, God will curse. {3T 272.1} … They despise the straight testimony that reaches the heart, and would rejoice to see everyone silenced who gives reproof. {3T 272.2}

    And so I ask, in rhyme:

    Do we have the courage to wage war
    with the message of 3SG 90-94?

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  35. Shane&#032Hilde: I think it would be more intersting if the conversation steered away from 3SG 90-91.

    That quote serves two main purposes.

    1. It is the primary response to the “let’s big tent TE inside Adventism” theme that some have been promoting. (And as a few have pointed out here – not ALL SDAs are aware of what that text even says).

    2. It shows full agreement with Darwin, Dawkins and others on the obvious point that the Bible cannot be married to evolution. David Bee has made it very clear on this board that the “solution” for marrying evolution to the Bible is to declare the Bible to be nothing more than myth. He is making the same 3SG 90-94 case only in the negative.

    What it does not do is evaluate the junk-science nature of the claims for evolution. So the science gaffs, blunders and hoaxes put forward on behalf of evolution will come up.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  36. BobRyan said: Zimmerman’s campaign points to the deep confusion among various Christian denominations when it comes to whether or not they should actually believe the Bible if it contradicts classic atheist evolutionism.

    Professor&#032Kent:
    Yes, it’s clear that millions of Christians accept theistic evolution

    That is true – TE’s do exist. That must why Ellen White addressed the issue.

    Just stating the obvious.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  37. Mark Finley has just written an awesome article on topic. It states the issues clearly and absolutely establishes the historic SDA position. The article was published in the May 12, 2011 issue of Adventist Review.

    “One of the great theological problems with theistic evolution is that it limits God’s power. It exalts natural law above the Creator of natural law. Theistic evolution doesn’t allow for an all-powerful God to miraculously shape our world. It reduces God to the scale of human imagination, and exalts reason above revelation. This was precisely why humanity fell in the beginning. Eve listened to the voice of the serpent in the garden and trusted what her eyes could see rather than what God said. Her mind became the final arbiter of truth.”

    “The plain teaching of the Bible doesn’t allow for the earth evolving over billions of years: in Scripture there’s no room for God starting the process and evolution finishing it. God finished what He started in Creation week.”

    “In the evolutionary model as proposed by Charles Darwin and successively refined during the past 150 years, death is a necessary component of evolutionary progress. Natural selection teaches that the fittest species survive and the weakest die. In this scenario death is crucial, because it allows the stronger species to thrive. Consequently, death would have occurred for billions of years before humans evolved.”

    “The truth of Creation also supplies human beings with a God-given sense of value and dignity. Our roots take us back, not to a primordial slime pit of randomly selected molecules, but to an all-wise, intelligent God who formed us in His image (Gen. 1:27). We are bound together in one common humanity (Acts 17:24-26). God is our loving heavenly Father, who cares for us deeply. Although we live in a fallen world, His presence is constantly with us to encourage and strengthen us to face life’s challenges and heartaches.”

    “The name “Seventh-day Adventist” communicates two vital last-day truths—
    the Sabbath, and the second coming of Jesus. Evolution, in both its atheistic and theistic forms, undermines both. As we have already shown earlier in this article, there is really no basis for the Sabbath if God didn’t create the world in six days in the first place. Why establish a memorial for something that doesn’t exist? At best the theistic evolutionist might see the Sabbath as a time of rest and social fellowship, but certainly not a memorial of an all-powerful Creator who created our world in six consecutive 24-hour days.”

    “The legacy of Lucifer’s rebellion and our first parents’ fall speaks in thunderous tones. To exalt God’s gift of reason above God’s Word is catastrophic. To accept evolution is to abandon the authority of Scripture, salvation through Jesus Christ, the re-creating power of God, the Sabbath, and the second coming of Jesus.”

    I don’t know how it could have been said better. Excellent article, Mark.

    The entire article can be read here:

    http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2011-1513&page=16

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  38. June 2010 WASC issued a letter to La Sierra University president Randal Wisbey, stating it would return for a special visit spring 2011, because of what WASC considered a threat to LSU’s institutional autonomy and academic freedom. The Adventist Accrediting Association (AAA) gave LSU until Dec. 31, 2012 to demonstrate its faithfulness to the biblical creation account. It will be interesting to see how WASC reacts to the AAA action. The letter to Wisbey stated:

    In your communications with the Commission, both in writing prior to meeting and at the Commission meeting, you expressed the commitment of the board and the president to resist efforts that would compromise academic freedom and institutional autonomy.

    It is unknown exactly when WASC will visit LSU, but I assume if it hasn’t happened already that it will be very soon.

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  39. Prof. Kent, Christians are members of society equal to non-Christians. We all have an equal vote for what we want society to be. We all have a different perception of what the societal outcome should be. Satan and his loyal citizens are doing a great job of trying to force all forms of immorality down my and my families throats. There is nothing wrong with me voting for what I think causes society to be the best and most moral.

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  40. I hope, believe, and pray that LSU will remain squarely within the Church’s fold.

    It will be tragic if this website actually creates a dilemma with WASC that leads to revocation of accreditation, or pushes the university the wrong direction. In either case, some here will view such an outcome as a victory.

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  41. You are right, Ron. I have only even been in Califoria a very few times. I cannot understand what you are dealing with re the liberal culture of where you are.

    Truthfully, I have no wisdom to know how to deal with the problem of some who take the name of Adventist but deny or try to change the fundamentals of the faith. The only thing I can do is pray for and support world leadership as they struggle for wisdom to deal with it.

    Really, it is a sign of the times – one of many. Jesus is coming soon (are “Adventists” scoffing me for saying this?) and the time is now to make the final preparations to meet him. Any naysayers? They are a sign of the times.

    From the buckle of the Bible belt…

    Charles

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  42. @Charles, I agree with you completely. But perhaps you do not live out here in California, where secular humanism is the “rule” not only at LSU, but in our conferences, even up to the highest levels.

    Don’t believe me? Just check out what our so-called leaders have allowed to infiltrate into our SDA Churches and institutions–“evolution as fact” and “gay marriage” being only two of the major problems.

    Are these “real” SDA’s? Well in some places they are considered the “mainstream!”

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  43. I simply cannot believe that those who have sought to bring the ideas of evolution (in any form)into our institutions will change. The statements that I have been reading do not show change but rather a begrudging assent to hide what they really believe in their hearts.

    Let’s not forget the Adventist mission which is to bring God’s final warning to a world that is about to perish: The “Three Angels Messages”. The core of that message is that God is the Creator. Scripture plainly teaches that God created us and all that surrounds us in a seven-literal-day cycle. It was accomplished quickly and in perfection. A decline began when mankind entered the state of sin and that decline has continued until today.

    In contrast, every form of evolution that I have ever seen, teaches that life on the earth began simply and has grown toward perfection. These two teachings are the opposite of each other and are mutually exclusive. They cannot be reconciled.

    To those who would bring the ideas of evolution into our faith, please be honest about what you are trying to do. Go ahead and sign the “Clergy Letter Project” letter with Butler University and at least be as honest as the thousands of clergy of other “faiths” who have signed the document. Here is the link:

    http://blue.butler.edu/~mzimmerm/rel_evol_sun.htm

    Go and do it, if that is what you believe. But know this, that faithful Adventist people believe in a God who is not subject to “laws of nature” and has power beyond the ability of our scientific methods to even detect or measure. If you don’t believe in such a God, then you are not really a SDA, no matter what you claim to be. Just please be honest – at least.

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  44. Dr Stone,

    The progressives and liberals are unrelenting and persistent in trying to destroy the SDA church. You are right, LSU is not going to come around and start to do what is right just because of this story. People do not so easily change their opinions. They will only get more secretive about how they teach their error.

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  45. BobRyan: The text is so clear that it would be shocking if even one SDA would then suggest that TE be taught at any of our schools after having read that statement.

    Professor&#032Kent:
    You seem to forget your own words: if someone believes in TE or suggests that TE should be taught at our schools, they are not an SDA. They cannot be.

    How could we ever forget your “TE’s exist” solution along with your “SDA TE’s exist” solution to the problem cited as if that argues for big-tenting-TE because “TE’s exist”.

    I think most SDAs will find Ellen White’s statement on that point a little more convincing than our ‘yes but TEs exist’ – non-answer for the problem.

    But to each his own.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  46. I think this is good.

    Maybe a bit on the dramatic side but accurate.

    We live in the time of the end and little time is left.

    Conspiracy Theories? “End of World?” If so, does much else matter?

    This does not fit into any model of evolution – which would predict that we will continue to evolve toward perfection and someday create our own “Heaven”.

    The issue is: What do you accept as true and how will you respond?

    For me at this time, nothing else does much matter – except that I could persuade anyone – especially those I love – to be on the correct side of the issues.

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  47. I think that our (humans) limitations to the finite sometimes cause us problems. It tries to demand that we ask “Who created the Creator?” We cannot comprehend infinities. How could it be that God had no beginnning but has always been? For me it seems a bit easier to comprehend infinity in time forward than infinity in time past. How could you describe “eternal life”? As the song says, “When we’ve been there 10,000 years… no less days to sing God’s praise than when we first begun.”

    Try to describe the biggest number you can imagine. Put years after that number. What would we do with all that time? The idea presents a new infinity – the gathering of knowledge and understanding. And how about endless increasing LOVE?
    Is there ever a point when it has all been done?

    And where does the universe begin or end? As far as we can tell, it goes on and on with no end? Assuming that God has created everything (which I believe He has), was there ever a time when He was NOT creating or had not yet created anything? Follow that thought to His having been creating an ever expanding universe for eternity past. Is it possible that the universe continues on and on without end? Could there be an end to “space”? If so, what would be beyond it?

    The reality is that we as humans cannot begin to comprehend a reality that hypothetically encompanses infinity. We just can’t do it because everything we know has beginnings and ends – whether it be time or space.

    But the reality is that we are here. We cannot even explain our own existence and I think that to suggest that it is an accident is actually a major admission of our lack of intelligence.

    Imagine that you could stand back and look at a universe with nothing in it. Then you say to yourself, “I want to make something” First of all you have to have “matter”. Then the matter has to have it’s various complex forms. Then you want to get life started within that matter. Consider the billions of complex miracles that have to be functioning in harmony to have that matter (once you have made it) take on the functions required to have “life” – even in its simplest form.

    All of this is really here. How did it get started? Even with our human advances in knowledge and understanding of “science” we really cannot explain the most fundamental concept of what really constitutes life. We know when it is in some matter, and we can sure tell when it is gone. But we do not know what it is.

    It takes faith to believe in anything about how we got to be here and what the realities of our world are. Given the account in scripture about these great questions, I find the explanation to be much more believable than the notion that it all just somehow happened.

    But the important thing to acknowledge is that it is all so much bigger and greater than we are. Yes, infinity does exist and we cannot comprehend it because we are finite. The scriptural acocunt of it all is powerful and compelling for those who give it a fair chance.

    There is so much more to say. But that is almost enough for now.

    As I write this in the Eastern time zone of the US, the sun will go down in a little less than two hours. I have full confidence that although I do not know exactly how many years it has been since the Creation but I am certain of something: The number of days – including tomorrow – will be divisible by 7. And the number of days since the day that the first Man was created until today, is also divisible by 7.

    Happy Sabbath, everyone!

    Listen to the “still small voice” of your Creator. He WILL speak to you if you listen.

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  48. Charles: So, what is “evolution”. I have always understood the concept to mean that life has moved from lower forms to higher forms.
    Make it simple for me. In the scheme of evolution, has mankind evolved from a lower plane to a higher plane over time? Or has mankind moved from a higher plane to a lower plane?

    In reality – man has moved from a higher level to a lower level.

    In the land of “Fiction” – birds come from reptiles (in fact they come from plants if you want the big picture) and mankind comes from a common ancestor with Chimps.

    Which is why Darwin found no place for the Bible alongside his belief in evolutionism.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  49. Typically the TEs do not want to notice that the Atheists see a huge problem between the Bible and evolutionism, and they do not want to notice that the Christians see a huge problem between evolutionism and the Bible, and if they are SDA then they do not want to notice divine messages from God on that same topic in 3SG 90-94.

    And what is interesting is that some of those atheists used to be Christians – and so would in theory have enjoyed a stop off at the TE booth on their way to being atheists – but found that self-conflicted stop-off too hollow.

    Which leaves the TE argumentk left with little more than “yes but TEs exist”.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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  50. Charles: Michael Zimmerman
    Professor of Biology
    Butler University

    Somebody needs to e-mail Dr. Zimmerman the text from 3SG 90-91, and maybe even 3SG 92-94, so that his inquiring mind will employ higher critical reasoning to realize that marrying evolution with Bible is harder than threading a needle through a polonium halo.

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  51. BobRyan: Certainly I agree with you that there is in fact no logical way to marry TE to the Bible if you really take both of them seriously and think about it for a minute. Darwin was so convinced of that that he gave up Christianity entirely. Dawkins, Provine and Meyer are all on record as coming to the same conclusion.

    Bob Ryan won’t do it, Sean Pitman won’t do it, David Read won’t do it, Shane Hilde won’t do it, Ron Stone won’t do it, Wesley Kime won’t do it, Ken won’t do it, Dawkins won’t do it, Provine won’t do it, Meyer won’t do it, Eddie won’t do it, and Professor Kent won’t do it.

    Okay. But millions of Christians do marry TE and the Bible. How sad that they succeed in such an illogical venture. Let’s pray for them.

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  52. Dear commenters,

    Do not be so quick to judge La Sierra University. Many of the accusations made are half-truths and do not show the entirety of the situation. The only way you will be able to understand La Sierra’s Bio dept. is by becoming a student, or auditing a class. So just as the Bereans searched the scriptures daily to see if the words of the apostles were so, go to LSU to see if these things are true.

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    • @La Sierra BIO Student: The initial allegations toward LSU were originally made by students. There have been two student led petitions in the past, 1999 and 2004, that spoke of this issue. Educate Truth was created by a graduate of LSU who took one of the biology classes promoting evolutionary theory as fact.

      Could you elaborate on the “half-truths” these students are making in their allegations?

      Also, don’t forget that AAA confirmed the allegations just be talking with the professors themselves for three hours. A conversation that should have happened at the beginning.

      You’re right though about people needing to go to LSU and see things for themselves. I wish more had done this. Much more would have been revealed about the situation.

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  53. Charles: “…there are those who accept theistic evolution but still believe the Bible is true…”
    The Bible absolutely refutes “theistic evolution”. If someone accepts TE and also thinks he believes the Bible, then he is not very acquainted with his Bible.

    In the 3SG 90-94 reference we see that “TE’s EXIST” and that the problem they present is one that is to be considered the “worst form of infidelity” because it is “infidelity in disquise”.

    How innexplicable then the retort sometimes found on this web site that is of the form “yes – but TE’s exist so how can that be true”.

    To which I might say “Hello – ” !. A TE by definition is one who thinks he can marry belief in evolutionism to acceptance of the Bible.

    I am sure we all see that point.

    Certainly I agree with you that there is in fact no logical way to marry TE to the Bible if you really take both of them seriously and think about it for a minute.

    Darwin was so convinced of that that he gave up Christianity entirely. Dawkins, Provine and Meyer are all on record as coming to the same conclusion.

    3SG 90-94 makes the point abundantly clear.

    in Christ,

    Bob

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