;-) It seems like there are much bigger issues …

Comment on GC Delegates Vote to Tighten Language of Fundamental #6 on Creation by Sean Pitman.

😉

It seems like there are much bigger issues in play regarding these last days. However, the nature of sin and how God deals with it is a surprisingly important concept that paints a picture of what we think of the very nature of God. Some people think that God views any error of any kind as a form of “sin”. If so, even the angels, who aren’t omniscient and therefore are bound to make honest mistakes from time to time, are “sinners”. This is a sad view of sin because it paints God in an unfair and unjust light. Of course, this entire “Great Controversy” struggle is over this very concept – the character of God. Is God lovable or not? Can He really be trusted? Is He someone to be feared rather than loved?

It is for this reason that I personally consider it of significant importance to understand the nature of sin and how God deals with it. And, as far as I understand the nature of sin from my study of the Bible and the writings of Ellen White, it seems to me that there is a very clear and helpful distinction between errors that are due to a lack of knowledge (which anyone but God Himself would be subject to – even heavenly angels) vs. errors that are due to a deliberate rebellion against what is clearly known to be right and good. These types of deliberate errors, I believe, are what the Bible defines as “sin” in the sense of an error due to an underlying moral failure or deficiency. Such an error, or “sin”, is what caused the downfall of humanity in the Garden of Eden. And, the very same errors have taken each one of us captive so that no one on this planet can claim to be without a history of such errors or deliberate sins. We’ve all fallen short of the kingdom of God, not accidentally, but quite deliberately – so that none of us has a valid excuse of any kind, not even one of honest ignorance, before God for the bad things that we’ve all done in our lives.

That means, of course, that there is only one hope for us – the lavish mercy of God extended to us through the life and death of Jesus on our behalf. Basically, it is our extremely desperate need and hopeless state alone that recommends wretches like us to God. We have absolutely nothing within ourselves or our past history that can make us look any better before God than filthy rags. And, it is only in our humble recognition of our true state before God that we can find hope. Because, it is only when we come to this realization that we feel our extreme need to take on the righteous life of Jesus and cover ourselves with His robes and His strength, falling to our knees in gratitude for such a gift to those of us who don’t remotely deserve it.

So, it is not that we are born to make ignorant mistakes that’s the real problem here. It is that we are born in such a state where we end up in deliberately rebelling against what we do know is right and good that’s the real problem. It’s a form of insanity – or there would be an excuse for the bad things that we’ve all deliberately done. There simply is no excuse for it. And, the only way out of our insanity is through the grace of God made possible by the sacrifice of Jesus. Without this saving sacrificial grace, we are all destined to become more and more insane and more and more despicable, even in our own eyes. That is why the lost, at the end of time, will actually prefer death to the torture of eternal life – and they will therefore view their own pending death as a act of mercy on the part of God.

And, for me, that’s what it’s all about… recognizing the goodness and selfless love of God in His dealing with the sin problem and being given the privilege to choose life and a sound mind over personal insanity and death.

Sean Pitman Also Commented

GC Delegates Vote to Tighten Language of Fundamental #6 on Creation
There’s no such thing as being “amoral” (unless one is born mentally handicapped) since all intelligent humans are given an inherent knowledge, as a Divine gift, of the Royal Law written on the heart (Hebrews 10:16 and Romans 2:14-16).

This is a key difference between humans and animals since animals are indeed amoral creatures. It is for this reason that all humans will be judged on a moral basis according to the Royal Law. This is not true for animals. Unlike humans, animals with not face a “Judgement Day”. Why not? Because, unlike humans, they are not morally responsible for the things that they do.


GC Delegates Vote to Tighten Language of Fundamental #6 on Creation
I disagree. This hypothetical situation speaks to your argument that “sins” can be and are committed in complete ignorance – which is nonsense. Being born in a state of separation from God isn’t the same thing as “sinning” against God. Such a condition may be the result of sin, but it isn’t the same thing as sinning – according to both the Bible and according to every sense of justice and fair play.

In any case, I do not care to rehash all this, yet again, with you. This ends our discussion on this topic – at least in this forum.


GC Delegates Vote to Tighten Language of Fundamental #6 on Creation
Obviously we disagree – as I’ve explained regarding this quote and many others like it from both the Bible and Ellen White in some detail already.

You erroneously equate simple “errors” (due to honest ignorance) with things like the deliberate rebellion of Adam and Eve – which did in fact require the blood of Christ as an atonement. Your view of “sin” here would make anyone who is not omniscient (and who is therefore inevitably bound to fall into various errors from time to time) a “sinner” – even the angels in Heaven! That’s simply a mistaken view of why Jesus had to die – an error that causes you to modify the actual words of Jesus Himself on this topic (John 9:41; John 15:22-24). Honest errors, which are not against the fundamental moral code or “Royal Law” of love, would simply require additional information to correct – not the blood of Jesus.

Again, I suggest that you move on and start your own blog on this topic. This forum simply isn’t the place for it.


Recent Comments by Sean Pitman

Science and Methodological Naturalism
Very interesting passage. After all, if scientists are honest with themselves, scientific methodologies are well-able to detect the existence of intelligent design behind various artifacts found in nature. It’s just the personal philosophy of scientists that makes them put living things and the origin of the fine-tuned universe “out of bounds” when it comes to the detection of intelligent design. This conclusion simply isn’t dictated by science itself, but by a philosophical position, a type of religion actually, that strives to block the Divine Foot from getting into the door…


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

Why is it that creationists are afraid to acknowledge the validity of Darwinism in these settings? I don’t see that these threaten a belief in God in any way whatsoever.

The threat is when you see no limitations to natural mindless mechanisms – where you attribute everything to the creative power of nature instead of to the God of nature.

God has created natural laws that can do some pretty amazing things. However, these natural laws are not infinite in creative potential. Their abilities are finite while only God is truly infinite.

The detection of these limitations allows us to recognize the need for the input of higher-level intelligence and creative power that goes well beyond what nature alone can achieve. It is here that the Signature of God is detectable.

For those who only hold a naturalistic view of the universe, everything is attributed to the mindless laws of nature… so that the Signature of God is obscured. Nothing is left that tells them, “Only God or some God-like intelligent mind could have done this.”

That’s the problem when you do not recognize any specific limitations to the tools that God has created – when you do not recognize the limits of nature and what natural laws can achieve all by themselves.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Bill Sorensen:

Since the fall of Adam, Sean, all babies are born in sin and they are sinners. God created them. Even if it was by way of cooperation of natural law as human beings also participated in the creation process.

God did not create the broken condition of any human baby – neither the physical or moral brokenness of any human being. God is responsible for every good thing, to include the spark or breath of life within each one of us. However, He did not and does not create those things within us that are broken or bad.

“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?'” Matthew 13:27-28

Of course, all humans are indeed born broken and are in a natural state of rebellion against God. However, God is not the one who created this condition nor is God responsible for any baby being born with any kind of defect in character, personality, moral tendency, or physical or genetic abnormality. God did not create anyone with such brokenness. Such were the natural result of rebellion against God and heading the temptations of the “enemy”… the natural result of a separation from God with the inevitable decay in physical, mental, and moral strength.

Of course, the ones who are born broken are not responsible for their broken condition either. However, all of us are morally responsible for choosing to reject the gift of Divine Grace once it is appreciated… and for choosing to go against what we all have been given to know, internally, of moral truth. In other words, we are responsible for rebelling against the Royal Law written on the hearts of all mankind.

This is because God has maintained in us the power to be truly free moral agents in that we maintain the Power to choose, as a gift of God (Genesis 3:15). We can choose to accept or reject the call of the Royal Law, as the Holy Spirit speaks to all of our hearts…

Remember the statement by Mrs. White that God is in no wise responsible for sin in anyone at any time. God is working to fix our broken condition. He did not and does not create our broken condition. Just as He does not cause Babies to be born with painful and lethal genetic defects, such as those that result in childhood leukemia, He does not cause Babies to be born with defects of moral character either. God is only directly responsible for the good, never the evil, of this life.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Revisiting God, Sky & Land by Fritz Guy and Brian Bull
@Ron:

Again, your all-or-nothing approach to the claims of scientists isn’t very scientific. Even the best and most famous of scientists has had numerous hair-brained ideas that were completely off base. This fact does not undermine the good discoveries and inventions that were produced.

Scientific credibility isn’t based on the person making the argument, but upon the merits of the argument itself – the ability of the hypothesis to gain predictive value when tested. That’s it.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


Gary Gilbert, Spectrum, and Pseudogenes
Don’t be so obtuse here. We’re not talking about publishing just anything in mainstream journals. I’ve published several articles myself. We’re talking about publishing the conclusion that intelligent design was clearly involved with the origin of various artifactual features of living things on this planet. Try getting a paper that mentions such a conclusion published…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com