Comment on Christians and the Sabbath by Ken Christman.
Sadly, we remain in utter confusion and darkness, much like the runaway prophet Jonah in the belly of the whale. Jonah refuses to come forth and share with us his special knowledge on the Sabbath truth. We still do not know what the “Sabbath truth” is, and we still do not know how to “keep the Sabbath” or why Jonah does not confirm that the Sabbath is to be kept just like God commanded on Mt. Sinai and as Ellen White directed it should be kept. Jonah and all other Sabbatarians ignore those commands and the people are eager and waiting to hear what change took place that no longer applies to these commandments. We also do not hear why Martin Luther, who understood the Sabbath and the Decalogue, yet ignored “keeping the Sabbath”, is destined to be saved, while Paul, who also understood and ignored the keeping of the Sabbath by teaching that Christians should not be judged on the Sabbath commandment, has an eternal destiny that is in jeopardy for being in “open rebellion against God”. We do not understand the difference. We also do not know who told Jonah “We’re told that Martin Luther will be saved”, as God is the only judge. Did God share something with Jonah that he is not relaying to everybody else, or did he get that information from another prophet or prophetess? Without proper definitions and explanations, how can God’s people know the truth and how to avoid being in “open rebellion against God”?
Worse yet, you continue to distort and deform the Holy Scriptures. You continue to claim that Mark 2:27, 28 teaches that the Sabbath was made for “all mankind”, which is not at all true. Hopefully, the SDA Bible Commentary will dissuade you of that fallacy, as right after the Decalogue was given, it is clear that it was given only to the Israelites. In vol. I, page 608, we find the following: “Moses pacified the people with the calm assurance that they need have no fear. It was God’s purpose to impress indelibly upon their minds a concept of His majesty and power, as a restraint from sinning. The ISRAELITES were still dull in their comprehension of God, and consequently needed the discipline of fear until such a time as they were ready to be guided by the tender voice of love.” It is clear from the above that only the Israelites were being spoken to. The Egyptians were not there, neither were the Canaanites or any other pagans. The Sabbath commandment, however, did include the servants and strangers within the Jewish gates, as the Jews were not to expect others under their control to violate the Sabbath commandment.
What Jesus was really trying to teach was in verse 28 where He clearly declares Himself Lord of the Sabbath, thus equal with God, and thus able to change the Sabbath.
Nowhere does the Talmud teach that Sabbath observance began in the Garden of Eden, or at least I cannot find it. If it is there, I beg you to point it out, but you probably will not. The Torah is silent on the same issue. The Talmud does mention the Seven Laws of Noah, but these have nothing to do with Sabbath observance beginning in the Garden of Eden. The Medrash, however, claims that Abraham kept the Torah (Law), and thus probably the Sabbath. It claims that this occurred prior to the giving of the Law on Mt. Sinai, as Abraham somehow had access to this “body of wisdom”. The Medrash constitutes embellishments of the Torah, written roughly between 200 and 1200 AD by numerous rabbis. This was during a time AFTER the coming of Jesus, and certainly is of no value at all, as it in no way could constitute Scripture.
You continue to claim that “Jesus personally kept the Sabbath” in spite of John 5:18 clearly saying that He broke the Sabbath. You claim that the disciples kept the Sabbath in spite of Luke 6 describing how the disciples broke the Sabbath by plucking ears of corn. Jesus’ response was again in verse 5, “The Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath”, indicating He was equal to God and able to change the Sabbath commandment. Thus, the Holy Scriptures clearly state that Jesus broke the Sabbath and allowed His disciples to do the same because He was Lord of the Sabbath and much greater than the Sabbath.
The women who were to prepare Jesus’ body for burial did NOT understand why Jesus died, just like those disciples on the road to Emmaus on Sunday. Yes, they kept the Sabbath as per the commandment. It did indeed take some time for the early Christians to understand that Jesus kept the Law for them and released them from its obligations.
Contrary to your assertion, the early Christians and disciples met on Sunday and observed communion. You claimed that Paul’s custom was to “worship on Sabbath”. No, he only went to the synagogue to reach the Jews. He taught very clearly in Colossians 2:16 that we are no longer to keep the Sabbath or be judged about Sabbath keeping. Your claim that “There simply is no mention in the Bible of the Apostles teaching that people should no longer observe one of the Ten Commandments” is thus entirely false.
As for the Roman Catholic Church claiming to have changed Sabbath observance to Sunday observance, the reality is this: The Roman Catholic Church claims apostolic succession. In other words, it claims to have its origin with Peter, then down through the early patristics (church fathers) and on down to the popes, etc. While this is an extravagant claim, they thus trace the fact that the early Christians met on Sunday to be a change that was made by the Early Christians! Well, the truth of the matter is that the early Christians did indeed meet on Sunday, but there is no record of them “keeping Sunday” as a holy day by transferring the 4th commandment to “Sunday keeping” The fact that they “met and had communion on Sunday” does not indicate they “kept it” as the Jews kept the Sabbath. There is NO Biblical command for this, there is no evidence that such occurred in the early church. Furthermore, I am not aware of any Christians even today who observe Sunday in that fashion. They could meet on any day of the week, but that would not constitute keeping such a day holy.
Now then, since you are utterly silent on how God-fearing Christians today can and should “keep the Sabbath truth” in order to avoid being in rebellion against God, I shall share with you some Biblical facts about the 2 resurrections. I trust and hope that you are not like the Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection. There are only 2 resurrections. The first one is NOT marked by any judgment whatsoever. Jesus promised in John 3 that whoever believes in Him will NOT be condemned (judged). This is emphasized by I Thessalonians chapter 4 which refers to saints being raised from the grave WITHOUT any judgment, and those alive will be caught up with them. This is further confirmed in Revelation 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” They bypass judgment by believing in Jesus as their Savior and by accepting the wedding garment that is freely given. They are NOT using their own garment. Jesus is the ONLY one who can serve as the spotless lamb.
The 2nd resurrection, on the other hand, is marked by a judgment, and a description of those marked for the 2nd judgment is given in Revelation 20:13-15 “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Thus, this second death is permanent, and nobody going through this judgment will escape. These are those who did not accept the invitation to the wedding feast and did not accept Jesus’ wedding garment. Remember the poor chap who tried to get in without the wedding garment? He was cast out into darkness and where there is gnashing of teeth. Those who pretend to keep the Sabbath but are indeed violating any small aspect of it will not be perfect and will not be acceptable, and will be judged by their own works.
So, there are two choices: 1. Accept Jesus’ perfection to cover us in our sinful condition. 2. Try to be “perfect” on our own and keep the Decalogue on our own, including the Sabbath and all 613 commandments. This is impossible, as Paul and others have repeatedly pointed out. Those who wrongly believe they can earn their own salvation will end up in judgment and be condemned to the lake of fire. I shudder to think of the words of Ellen White, where she describes mere mortals as “co-workers” with Jesus in our salvation. Absolutely not. I am a mere mortal and utterly without hope except for trusting in Jesus, who was the spotless Lamb who died IN MY PLACE. Ellen White also taught that we must be perfect, just like the Pelagian Heresy which taught that Jesus came to show us how to live a sinless life rather than to die in our place! Well, we cannot live a sinless life, even though Ellen White clearly said that there would be a period of time before Jesus returns where He will no longer be serving as our High Priest, and we MUST BE SINLESS!! What? She further taught that we should NEVER say that we are saved! What? Jesus clearly promised our salvation solely by believing in Him, yet countless SDA’s are unsure of their salvation because they don’t know if they are perfect enough! Of course they’re not perfect enough, and they NEVER NEVER will be. Anybody and everybody with the slightest imperfection will be destined to go through judgment.
So, in the final analysis, you were on the right track by initially claiming that keeping the Sabbath never saved anybody. I was so happy to hear that and commended you for it. Yet, you completely reversed yourself, and now nobody knows where you really are because you will not say. Actually, you were a little bit wrong, because between Mt. Sinai and Jesus’ death there were a lot of people saved by keeping the Sabbath. It carried the death penalty, remember? If I had lived during that time period, I would have kept the Sabbath to the exactness that God required, and would have lived, as He promised. On the other hand, had I violated it, it would have voided eternal life and possibly temporal life as well.
Jesus and Paul confirmed all other 9 commandments in one form or another, but NOT the Sabbath commandment, as Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He clearly said that not one jot or tittle of the Law would be changed until all was fulfilled, thus indicating that there would be a change! When He uttered those words on the cross, “IT IS FINISHED”, He kept the Law for us, and we are released from its impossible requirement simply because we accept Him as Son of God, Redeemer, the Spotless Lamb who fulfilled God’s requirement of perfectionism. This is something we could never do on our own. It is a free gift, and, quite frankly, I do not understand why everybody does not avail themselves of this free gift.
Does the Law still stand? How do you think those going through the judgment are going to be judged? We know they are going to be judged by their works, but what are the Law Books to be used in judging those poor souls? I cannot believe that there is any other body of Law that God will use other than the Torah. If you have any other idea, please share it. So, that entire body of Law, including the Decalogue, must be what God intends to use to judge all those after the millennium. Those who accepted Christ’s perfection, however, will escape that judgment as they will have reigned with Christ 1,000 years and the 2nd death has no power over them. Sadly, this group will NOT include those who are “co-workers” for their own salvation, or those who are trying to get in with their own garments by “keeping the Sabbath”, or pretending to do so. Remember, those who are trying to get through on their merits must be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. No exceptions.
There are many, many people who have pretended to be perfect . Adam Weisshaupt, the founder of the Illuminati, claimed his group to be “Perfectibilists”. John Humphrey Noyes, the founder of a Utopian Society known as the Oneida Community, claimed the title of “Perfectionists” for himself and his followers. They shared everything, including spouses! Oh, yes, then there were the Albigenses (synonymous with the Cathars), who claimed that after receiving the consolamentum, they became “parfaits”, or perfect ones! These were dualists who actually claimed that Satan created the world. Amazingly, Ellen White mentioned them twice in her landmark book The Great Controversy, actually claimed they were true Christians!! I would challenge you to study them and let me know what part of their beliefs was truly Christian. It would seem that denying that God created the world as is clearly stated in Genesis would IMMEDIATELY disqualify them. Nevertheless, Ellen White herself clearly taught perfectionism, and I can guarantee you that if I should awaken and find myself in that judgment, I know I am not perfect and will never pass, and my most expedient course of action should be to lay down and accept the punishment. I know, however, that I will not be in that category, because I fully trust in Jesus for having covered my imperfection, do not and have never been in open rebellion against God, and will forever trust in Him and the mercy He has shown me in offering me a way out of my hopeless condition.
So, my prayer for you and all Adventists is that you also will do what you must do to avoid that judgment
Ken Christman Also Commented
Christians and the Sabbath
Thank you for your admission that you indeed did alter the record. But, as we both know, these were not mere typos, but rather, clear changes in content. The usual method of altering content is to issue an erratum or addendum, as you must certainly be aware. This is accomplished by simply creating another post! Intellectual integrity is important. Please continue to focus your energy on Creationism, but let us all resolve to keep Creationism above reproach.
Christians and the Sabbath
For some inexplicable reason, you seem to be intent on continuing this Sabbath discussion. For me, however, I conclude that I have labored for you in vain, and not only is this discussion nonproductive, but there is no indication that it ever will be in the future. There seems to be absolutely no desire to accurately interpret Scripture on the basis of common dictionaries, which, I must admit can be restrictive to over-active imaginations. You have severely misquoted even my own posts. You have even altered your own posts! I know because I copied your last post last night, and then, when I read it again on your website, there were additions! Whether or not you have altered my previous posts, I do not know. At this point, I must conclude that this type of intellectual integrity does not lend itself to a rational discussion of things of eternal value. Your sole purpose seems to be winning an argument, while my sole purpose is to understand God’s will for my life.
Your constantly shifting positions on the Sabbath and salvation are sufficient for me to understand that there is great confusion. I am saddened that your definition of Sabbath keeping differs from God’s definition. If, as you maintain, the Roman Catholic Church altered the time definition of Sabbath keeping and you yourself obviously altered God’s definition of the manner of Sabbath keeping, are you any different? You invalidate your arguments by being selective in following the clear commands of both God and Ellen White. These arguments are even more problematic because you claim that those who know the truth about Sabbath observance but reject them are in “open rebellion against God”? Perhaps it is because you forget your own words that you find it necessary to go back and “doctor” your previous posts.
At any rate, I wish you the best, and must leave you to your own devices. While I applaud your efforts in teaching and preaching God’s Creationism in 6 literal days, I hope your style is not a distraction, especially when you claim that something can be both “lawful” and “unlawful” simultaneously.
May God bless you.
Christians and the Sabbath
Your continued insistence that a commandment (law) “can be lawfully broken” is indeed extraordinary. If you are unable to grasp how you cannot be lawful and unlawful simultaneously, I’m not sure I can be of much more help to you. The statement that “Jesus only ‘broke the Sabbath’ in order to relieve suffering is absolutely false. In Mark 2, his disciples were gathering corn on the Sabbath and there was no suffering. This was contrary to the commandment which prohibited gathering food on Sabbath. In John 5, Jesus healed a paralytic on Sabbath then told him to take up his bed and walk–on the Sabbath, and this was completely contrary to carrying a burden o Sabbath. While he did indeed heal, the Jews were indignant about the carrying the bed on Sabbath.
You fabricate a statement that I supposedly made, “You cite a single Saturday night prayer meeting as evidence that they didn’t continue to observe the Sabbath. . . ” when I ABSOLUTELY MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, AS MOST OF US UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HAPPENS ON SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER SUNDOWN DOES NOT CONSTITUTE SABBATH OBSERVANCE. I DO NOT KNOW WHY YOU FABRICATE AND TWIST MY STATEMENTS. ARE YOU SURE YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WRITE?
You continue to focus on the shadow of Colossians 2. Hebrews 10:1 also refers to a shadow–“For the law having a shadow of good things to come. . . ” which simply means that the law was a shadow, and the real substance is Christ which replaces the law.
For some inexplicable reason, you continue to maintain that the Sabbath is for all mankind, and claim this is what “anthropos” means. Seriously, we MUST get back to the dictionaries again, as you are violating the Greek dictionary now. Get yourself a good Greek dictionary and look it up. You will find that “anthropos” does NOT mean mankind, and certainly does NOT mean ALL MANKIND. The definition is: THE COUNTENANCE, MAN-FACED, i.e. A HUMAN BEING. This is singular, and not plural. Wikipedia says it is Greek for HUMAN. Matthew 19:5, Matthew 19:10 and I Corinthians 7:1 all use the word “anthropos”, and in each case it is singular.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE respect the dictionaries, whether they be English, Greek, or any other. You do great violence to my the Bible, the words of Jesus, the English and Greek dictionaries, and even what I write.
Your reference to the lake drowning and saying to the rescuer to “get lost” is completely apocryphal. Please restrain yourself from misquoting me.
I explained to you that the Sabbath carried a capital punishment ant that at least one man in the Old Testament was stoned to death for violating the Sabbath commandment. It therefore follows that those who obeyed and did NOT violate the commandment during that time period avoided death and lived. This is a simple concept, yet you disagreed and said “No, that’s not right”. I’m not sure I can be of much more help to you if you cannot grasp simple inverse relationships. Perhaps I’ll make one final attempt. If Adam and Even had NOT eaten the forbidden fruit, would they have died? They ate it, then died as God told them. On the contrary, if they had not eaten, are you claiming that they would not have lived? If you truly are not able to follow this very simple logic, continue violating Scripture, dictionaries, etc., I suppose I’ll have to leave you where you are, hoping that you will someday appreciate Biblical truths for what God is actually trying to tell us.
This has been an interesting excursion, and I’ve been dragged all over the landscape. First, you claimed that Sabbath observance never saved anyone. Then, you claimed that it saved some, but not others. Some “ignorant” souls could be saved while other “ignorant” souls presumably not saved. Then, you maintained that those who knew the “Sabbath truth” but ignored you were in open rebellion against God and could not be saved. Now, you seem to have made a full circle, and your last post said “Keeping the commandments of God aren’t what saves a person.”
Jesus spelled out the process of salvation in John 3. Please read His words closely. He is my Mediator, and He should know.
Recent Comments by Ken Christman
Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
Decay is perfectly natural in a sinful world. There was NO decay prior to the Fall. Non-decay does not require active maintenance on the part of God. His creation was perfect and did not require maintenance like human creations require. Model T’s require active maintenance as they are human creations. The human body God created would have lasted an eternity if sin (disobedience) had not interrupted such perfection. That is when decay started. That is when the genomic code started to deteriorate. It ultimately led to disease and death. God cannot be compared to a mechanic in heaven, as His perfect creation does not require repairs. While the price of sin (disobedience) has been fully paid for, the restoration to perfection has not happened yet. Once it occurs (which I believe will be soon), there will be a complete restoration that will not require a “mechanic” for active maintenance, as decay, degeneration, decay, death (all those ugly D’s) will no longer exist.
As for assuming that genetic mutations have occurred at a constant rate since the fall of Adam and Eve, we should consider the fallacies of assuming constant degradation of Carbon-14 and the problems such assumptions have created. As Creationists, we should exercise caution in making assertions we cannot prove.
As for God being bound by His own laws, let us consider Jesus bringing perfect peace and tranquility just by commanding the elements to be still during a raging storm. We cannot understand such divine power over EVERYTHING, including the power to breath life into a lump of clay which was instantly transformed into a perfectly fine human body with over 5 billion base pairs (the human genome) and able to perfectly replicate without decay or deterioration of the system. Satan also has supernatural power, but God’s power is infinitely greater. Whenever there is supernatural activity, it can come from only of two sources. We do know for a fact that postdiluvian human life spans rapidly contracted from ca. 900 years to circa 70 years in just a few generations. I’m sure most Creationists would agree that God had a hand in this, and that this was not “natural”. Whether He did this by altering the mutation rate, we have no way of knowing, as mutation rates were not measured at that time and there is no way for us to reconstruct those past mutation rates.
As for Einstein, Newton, and others, I would exercise restraint in following any of their religious or theological assumptions.
Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
We may have observed mutation rates in the recent past, but how do we know what mutation rates were 100 years ago, 1,000 years ago, or 6,000 years ago? Prior to roughly 6,000 years ago, we can safely say mutation rates were ZERO, as God’s creation was perfect, and there was no sin, death, or deterioration in the genomic code!
Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
While data suggesting the hand of the Creator God in the creation of all living things is always welcome, one should exercise great caution in assuming the constancy of mutation rates. After all, God shortened human lifespans from ca. 900 years to ca. 70 years in only a few generations. Do you suppose He might have done that by altering mutation rates? Do you suppose that a powerful God who breathed life into a lump of clay could easily tinker with mutation rates? Furthermore, mutation rates would have highly variable effects on life forms in different species based upon average lifespans. Let us hope and pray that more scientists will be troubled by uncovering data that will lead them to trust the Genesis creation account as the only scientifically logical explanation of how we got here.
The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
Your concern about mysticism within Adventism is well founded. Pastor Bill Loveless identified Ellen White in the pages of the Adventist Review as a “true mystic.” “Mysticism” is defined in the dictionary as a euphemism for the occult. Look it up.
The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
You are right. I am totally confused as to what distinguishes “Historical Old Covenant” from “Old Covenant Thinking”. You and Chris White maintain that Sabbath observance is not necessary for salvation. Ellen White clearly states that it is necessary. Chris and Ellen CANNOT both be correct.
