@pauluc: 1. The big bang was not a process, but …

Comment on Avondale College Arguing in Favor of Darwinian Evolution? by Bob Helm.

@pauluc:

1. The big bang was not a process, but it was followed by processes. Also, recent measurements of the Hubble Constant suggest that the big bang occurred 13.7 billion years ago, not 17 billion years ago. But yes, I think it likely that what cosmologists call the big bang and what theologians call God’s ex nihilo creation of the universe were the same thing. Also, I do believe that God works miracles – sometimes by transcending natural laws, but more often by utilizing natural laws in unusual ways. However, God’s miracles are not magic. They are simply unexplained events that tend to strengthen faith.

2. I believe that heaven is a real place (probably extra-cosmic) where physical beings with bodies of flesh and bone can exist. So it must have material features, as Sean has mentioned. However, I cannot agree that angels are material beings, because Heb 1:14 calls them spirits. Also God is spirit (John 4:24). Perhaps heaven has the dimensions we are familiar with that contain its material features, along with higher dimensions where angels live. That’s just a guess!

3. I do not think there are any intelligent beings besides us in our solar system. However, I do believe that Ellen White received genuine visions from God in which she caught glimpses of intelligent beings living on other planets. And considering the number of extrasolar planets that are being discovered, what she reported sounds very reasonable. Perhaps these inhabited planets are in the Milky Way, in other galaxies, or both. I would point out that some Christians seem to have a hard time with E.T.s, and I do not consider this a doctrine. If someone doesn’t believe it, I will not contest them.

4. Our planet is reported to be about 4.5 billion years old, and I have no reason to dispute that. However, I don’t think that life was produced by processes, because processes cannot produce advanced codes. So I consider abiogenesis to be impossible. I believe that life was intelligently designed on earth a few thousand years ago.

5. Yes, that is what I believe.

6. First, I believe that creation week was a few thousand years ago, but a bit further back than 6000 years. The Bible never says that creation week was 6000 years ago; that is something man came up with. But no, I do not believe that the sun, moon, and stars were created ex nihilo during creation week.

7. I don’t know what you mean by this.

8. No, “asah” cannot be translated as “presented.” But that is a good translation of another Hebrew verb – “”nathan.” In Gen 1:17, we read that God “presented” (“nathan”) the luminaries in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.

9. First of all, Genesis was written in Hebrew, not Greek. The Hebrew verb “asah” has many meanings: do, work, make, arrange, establish, accomplish, institute, bring forth, bring about, produce, etc. But we should not apply these meanings willy nilly; they must be determined by context. However, to claim that “asah” always means “made” whatever the object is false even in the creation account! According to Gen 2:19, the animals were formed from the ground; in other words, they were brought into being. So it is appropriate to say that they were “made” (“asah”). However, when we consider the expanse (Gen 1:7), it was created by God. but it was also put in place by God. So you can say that it was “made” (“asah”), but you can just as easily say that it was “established” (“asah”). This means that the translation of “asah” in 1:7 can go either way. In Gen 1:14-19, the luminaries are appearing in the sky to give light on the earth and to mark seasons and days and years. In other words, they are being established as time keepers. Therefore, I (and many others) contend that in 1:16, “established” is a very legitimate translation of “asah.” “So God established the two great luminaries – the greater luminary to govern the day and the lesser luminary to govern the night – and the stars as well.” That makes perfectly good sense because the sun and the moon were established to govern day and night respectively. Lastly, in Gen 2:3, “God rested from all the work He had accomplished (“asah”) in creation” is an excellent translation. Many translations read “from all the work He had done in creation.” That’s OK, but not quite as good as “accomplished.” But notice that contrary to what you suggested, “made” does not fit here at all. “God rested from all the work He had made”? That doesn’t make any sense! So again, the meaning of “asah” is determined by context, and while “made” can be used in 1:16, as in most Bibles, “established” actually fits the context better.

Lastly, I do not claim that the literal interpretation of Gen 1 exhausts its meaning! This account was clearly composed as a polemic against polytheistic accounts of creation. However, that does not mean that the literal meaning is false. In fact, the New Testament builds its doctrine of salvation on that literal meaning. We call Jesus our Savior, but if Adam and his fall into sin are mythical, why do we need a Savior? How can there be a second Adam if there was no first Adam? Without a first Adam, passages like Rom 5:12-19 become nonsense. You may be willing to live with such contradictions, but many bright young people will not. For them, this is a tremendous intellectual turn off for Christianity, and it will only breed more atheists.

Bob Helm Also Commented

Avondale College Arguing in Favor of Darwinian Evolution?
@Randolph Belsky: I am not necessarily convinced that “Yam Suph” refers to the Gulf of Suez (it could not have been the Gulf of Aqaba), but it was a significant body of water. It was certainly not a salt marsh! As the Designer of natural law, God could have suspended the laws of physics to cause the water to part and pile up into walls, but the wording of the account suggests to me that He probably accomplished this through an unusual use of wind. However, regardless of whether He used wind or suspended physical laws, this was a genuine miracle (a very striking event that strengthened faith).

As far as the creation and establishment of the expanse (or atmosphere) on the 2nd day of creation week is concerned, this was direct action on the part of the Creator, and no natural law can account for it. God clearly transcended natural law in this case. He spoke, and it was accomplished!

I don’t know how much water fell from the sky during the flood. It was a significant amount, but probably quite secondary to what came from the fountains of the great deep (Gen 7:11-12). I suspect that the flood was a very unusual natural event that God utilized to accomplish His purpose of cleansing the earth from evil and violence. If that was the case, perhaps it was initiated when a series of asteroid impacts caused runaway subduction of the sea floor and the consequent splitting of an antediluvian super continent. This theory is called “Catastrophic Plate Tectonics” (CPT), and as a theory, it could certainly be wrong. But it does provide a possible scientific mechanism for understanding the entire flood scenario. However, the suggestion that the flood was a natural event that can be studied by science in no way minimizes God’s use of this event. God is the Lord of science, and He often uses nature to accomplish His purposes.

In conclusion, I believe that God’s intervention in the world/universe can transcend natural law, but it can also utilize natural law, and I suspect that both of these factors came into play in the instances you have mentioned.


Avondale College Arguing in Favor of Darwinian Evolution?
“After the knowledge, and obedience to, the will of God, the next aim must be to know something of His attributes of wisdom, power, and goodness as evidenced by His handiwork. It is evident that an acquaintance with natural laws means no less than an acquaintanceship with the mind of God therein expressed.” (James Prescott Joule)

Paul, the physicist James Joule held the exact philosophy of science that I am proposing. Would you like to pose that same question to him: “Why should you be interested in any science? It seems a bit messy to worry about facts!” Unfortunately, he’s not here to defend himself because he died at the end of the 19th century!

Joule’s perspective was very common before methodological naturalism gained its stranglehold over science. For some strange reason, you are willing to tolerate his likes, but if a modern researcher expresses this same opinion, you want to kick him/her out of the scientific community and ask the rather insulting question, “Why should you be interested in any science?” I honestly don’t understand your mindset. It baffles me!


Avondale College Arguing in Favor of Darwinian Evolution?
@Mike Manea: Mike, the problem is not a lack of evidence for the creationist model. The problem is the hold that the Lyell/Darwin model has on the scientific community, including all the psychological baggage that goes with it. This is not just a theory; this is a way of viewing all of reality (much like a religion), and for many people, it has great psychological appeal. For this reason, it is naive to think that it can be overthrown in a few years. However, the evidence for the creationist/catastrophist model continues to mount, and those with open minds are willing to at least examine it.


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@Carlos: Far from being outdated, I would say that Sean’s arguments are cutting edge. As for the assertion that scientists don’t use Darwin’s model for evolution, that is correct – because Darwin had no knowledge of Mendelian genetics. The original Darwinian model was replaced by the Neo-darwinian Synthesis about 1940, which claims that evolution takes place as natural selection acts on random mutations. Although this model still dominates biology today, it is facing increasingly serious problems, which Sean has touched on.


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@Sean Pitman: OK, I see it now. Sorry – I missed it earlier.


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Sean, Dr. John Sanford, who was an important contributor to the development of GMOs, has written a book on this issue entitled, “Genetic Entropy.” I don’t see him quoted anywhere in your article, and I’m wondering if you are familiar with his work. It is noteworthy that Dr. Sanford has abandoned Darwinism and adopted creationism/intelligent design, not originally for religious reasons, but because of this problem.


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Sean, once again I urge you to publish your material in book form, preferably with a non-Adventist publisher. You have such wonderful material, but the Educate Truth audience is so small.