Comment on Academic Freedom Strikes Again! by george.
To my pard home on the range
“But you know all that, you’ve heard tell as long as you’ve been hanging around this here corral, even while you’ve been asking us whether God has ever talked to us. Your ears have heard only “no’s” and not our “Yes we have, through the Bible, through creation, through the Royal Law of Love, and certainly through backlit clouds and babbling brooks and whispering pines.” Having heard only “no’s,” you ergo yourself right on to: “kind of leaves us on our own faculties, doesn’t it?” He that hath ears, let him hear, like the Man said, loud and clear.
Indeed I do Pard.
As you have adroitly pointed out there have many instances where those that have heard God’s voice have committed atrocities in His name, or done great things in His name. The difficulty for the rest of us not in direct contact is we have to deduce God’s existence from the evidence. Is this not what Dr. Pitman ,and indeed the Intelligent Design movement, are trying to do? Why do so if faith or scripture alone are sufficient? You and Sean know this answer. It is why this site exists. It is why the teaching of evolution in Adventist institutions is being challenged.
And really the issue isn’t about ole cowpokes like us mostly set in our ways. Its about youth, how they are going to be educated in modern science and how they are going to rationalize scientific thought with religious belief.
Perhaps the issue is not so much whispering pines, prophets or priests. Black holes are as much of the awe equation as the human mind that can discern same. Are they all not of the same creation? While we can alliterate, cosmic Nature can obliterate – indifferent to the religious rungs humans have built over time. to climb up the stairway to heaven. All part of the biblical divine or a yet unknown grander design?
Indeed Pard we should wonder, and ponder while we saunter, along the ole’ ontological trail.
For no matter how God we define, the pleasure is mine, to commune amidst the bloggy pines.
Table of Contents
george Also Commented
Academic Freedom Strikes Again!
To Wes
“So you’ve been asking (as is your egg-nostic wont, may I insert, winking) religious people for years and years and never yet heard anybody answer that God has actually talked to them? Not surprised. You wouldn’t in the legalist and Laodicean circles you’ve been socializing in (or, ahem, in them badlands circles ya’ll been goin’ roun’ ‘n roun’ in – couldn’t resist that hoop trope, you know me), which excludes serial killers, who hear some god without letup bugging them to do ungodly things, as they zealously witness in court. Hmmm… I hear an ear-splitting egg-nosticogeorgian question popping out of that one! ”
I apologize if I misunderstood what your were alluding to when you referenced serial killers.These were the atrocities to which I alluded.
Your confused cowpoke
Academic Freedom Strikes Again!
Gentlemen,
What just God would allow an innocent child to be born guilty for the sins of a distant ancestor? Should not every human being, irrespective of faith, be judged on their actions towards their fellow humans? Is this not what the parable of the Good Samaritan was all about and why it is so appealing to those of faith and non faith alike?
When we set ourselves as being the interpretive authority as to what God wants we risk hubris of the highest order. Better to allow for rational debate on the topic and respect the opinion of others.
What if there was only One Commandment? Do Good. ‘Kant’ see a problem with that. 🙂
Academic Freedom Strikes Again!
To Wes and Sean
” Of course, as our friend Wesley has artfully described, many of these revelations are only detectable by the mind that is already open to hearing the voice of God – already open to the leading of His Spirit. If the mind is not open to Spiritual things, then Spiritual communications will not be perceived – even if someone is literally raised from the dead before one’s very eyes (Luke 16:31). ”
Gentlemen, thank you for your further elucidation on the topic. But is it not also true that even to those whose minds are open to hearing the voice of God, in fact fervently pray to hear it (Mother Teresa in her later years) they may not necessarily ‘hear’ the voice of God. And., I presume in those cases this is where faith and interpretation as to how God speaks to us comes in?
I also point out that I grew up with religious education and church attendance. I also have opened myself up to prayer and spiritual experience. I am also very conscious of the mystery of life, the universe and especially good and evil in people. And, as an agnostic I acknowledge that God may be communicating “speaking” to me in many different ways. But I cannot say God has ever spoken to me and I don’t hear voices. That is why I am always curious about the phenomena of those that do. Most of my religious friends are of the same bent as yourselves – and I don’t disparage them or you! – they interpret the presence of God through feelings, observations and scripture. But I also have observed perhaps the most important similarity- they WANT to believe in God. Their moral universe and hope for life after biological death fuels that WANT. For me this represents a kind of benign human hubris or confirmation bias that colours objectivity. For me faith and science are different fields of human endeavour and should be separated.
As always, thanks for your patience and tolerance of your agnostic cyber cowpoke
Recent Comments by george
Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
@ Dr. Pitman
How did you make the segue from the creation story to Alexander the Great as historical science? What am I missing here – did someone actually witness the creation story and write about it?
Let’s try to stay inside the ball park on analogies shall we?
Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
“Again, why do you believe that Alexander the Great really did the various things that historians claim he did.”
Who said I did?
History is often recorded by the victors who may well gild the lily. Different historians may say different things about him. Some may have been eye witnesses, some may have not relying on hearsay. Some may have had a bias. Take all history with a grain of salt by considering the sources and margin for error I say.
However you’re not just talking about claims of the Bible, you’re talking about the claims of EGW. Do you have some empirical proof that she actually visited those worlds she described? If so where is your corroborating evidence of any sort? In short is your belief about EGW’s vision of extra terrestial based on any science whatsoever?
Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
@Bob
Have you ever read how much resistance Darwin faced when Origin of Species was first published? Many of the scientific establishment opposed him. In fact I have read that natural selection did not become a centerpiece of modern evolutionary biology until the 1930’s and 1940’s.
Darwin, like Pasteur has stood the test of time, notwithstanding the lack of initial scientific consensus. Who knows, perhaps one day YEC or YLC may ascend to the scientific pantheon? Have to find evidence for 6 day creation and how biodiversity emanated from the Ark though 🙂
Until then, I’m afraid they are just so stories.
Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
Did you notice that you have unilaterally used the analogy of Alexander the Great of which I have never studied or alluded to?
Are you equating EGW’s vision of extra terrestrial life to a battle on earth? Proverbial apples and oranges, but your silence and evasion of the science behind EGW’s vision is deafening.
Science, Methodological Naturalism, and Faith
@ Bob and Sean
Is EGW’s vision scientific? Is it corroborated or falsifiable?
Ask yourselves honestly why you believe in it. If it is because of your faith that is fine, but if it has some scientific, empirical basis, as Dr. Pitman likes to tote, you need to establish that basis. Otherwise it is a ‘just so’ theological story.
Also, I think a couple of my previous comments on this topic never made it out of the cyber editing room. I didn’t think they were offensive so I’m not sure why they were not posted. 🙂
