Comment on A big reason why so many people are leaving the church by Sean Pitman.
Here are formal definitions of science that can be compared to what I stated (which caused Sean Pitman to laugh out loud):
“Science is the pursuit of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.†– The Science Council (United Kingdom), 2009
Indeed – and where in such a definition of science is there anything about science not being involved with what is and isn’t more or less rational to believe? Where is it said that science has nothing to say about which theory, among many competing options, is or isn’t worthy of greater confidence or trust regarding its likely validity?
Pick your preferred word here, but science is all about making “educated guesses” or an “educated leap into the dark” as some have described it, as to what is most likely true based on limited information where the educated “guess” itself cannot be known to be true with absolute confidence – even after successfully passing numerous tests. On is able to gain greater confidence with successful testing, but never absolute confidence.
If you don’t want to call such “educated guesswork” a “leap of faith”, fine. What would you call it? A leap of logic or intuition perhaps? – as many have? Whatever you call it, it is a leap beyond that which can be known with absolute confidence… a leap beyond the facts themselves. That’s what science does. It helps us make leaps across our gaps in knowledge where the leaps themselves, while often helpful, and certainly better than nothing, are not always accurate and can never be known with absolute confidence to ever be accurate…
You know, if we had perfect unlimited knowledge, we wouldn’t need science. It is only because our knowledge is limited that we need the crutch of science to help us more accurately, but never perfectly, cross the gaps in our limited knowledge and understanding of the world in which we find ourselves.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman Also Commented
A big reason why so many people are leaving the church
@Professor Kent:
Rejection of the Seventh-day Sabbath because of a rejection of the clear reading of the Genesis account of origins is a rejection of the nature of inspiration of the Bible that Mrs. White (and the SDA Church) was trying to promote. Such a rejection completely changes the picture of God in one’s mind and the nature of the Bible as well as the Bible’s power to change one’s life and one’s world perspective. The Bible means something very different if it is viewed as a allegory vs. if it is viewed as literally true on those topics where the author(s) clearly intended to be taken as describing real historical events.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
A big reason why so many people are leaving the church
@Professor Kent:
There are many different ways to “believe in the Bible” that are completely opposed to the type of belief or faith that Mrs. White was trying to promote. Many believe that the Bible is a book of good moral instruction, but has nothing of any real value to say about the physical world. Many believe that the Bible is a collection of man’s best wisdom over the centuries, but is not actually the Word of God.
What Mrs. White was talking about is that a belief in mainstream evolutionary theories destroys a belief in the Bible as the clear Word of God on every topic it touches upon – to include the topic of origins. The evolutionary perspective undermines faith in the character of God that Ellen White understood and which the SDA Church is trying to promote. It undermines faith in the reasonableness and rationality of God – suggesting that God is willing to “command men to observe the week of seven literal days in commemoration of seven indefinite periods, which is unlike his dealings with mortals, and is an impeachment of his wisdom.”
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
A big reason why so many people are leaving the church
@Shane Hilde:
Exactly! Not even Abraham was asked to believe in the naked word of God devoid of empirical evidence that would appeal to the rational candid mind. God was not offended when Abraham asked for this evidence because without such evidence, Abraham would truly have been insane to simply follow voices in His head claiming to be the voice of God without any external empirical confirmation…
There are false spirits out there that will lie to us. These spirits must be tested. And, the only basis upon which to employ and interpret tests is our God-given human reasoning abilities.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.
Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).
Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.
