Comment on It’s about authority by JohnB.
Clifford Goldstein, you might be interested to know, holds a similar view. He would also leave Adventism and Christianity if the testable statements regarding physical reality within the Bible were ever convincingly falsified in his mind.
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean, I understand what you are saying here, but don’t you think that is a bit dangerous position to hold? Yes, I know you are saying it out of concern for and to illustrate your intellectual integrity, but still, don’t you think it is a dangerous position to be in? Are you sure you aren’t setting yourself up for a fall later on?
Here’s a quote from Great Controversy pg 625:
“Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only?”
Focus intently on the last two sentences there. They are VERY important.
I think Satan will one day offer false evidence that is going to overwhelm one’s senses (and maybe he is even doing it now via evolution). I agree, we need to be thoughtful and rational people. However, there ultimately is a standard which we must cling to regardless. For Christians, it is the Holy Scriptures.
Regarding falsifiability, evolutionists would contend that the data from various dating methods (and other data from evolution) is empirical evidence that the scriptures have been proven false. They feel that all that remains is to convince you of the validity of their interpretations, and then you will abandon the scriptures too. (Thus their agenda with schools).
Again, what you said (I think) is very dangerous, and is a very dangerous position to hold. The reality is that it’s about the authority and source of scriptures. They (scriptures) have the support of the sure word of prophecy, they exhibit great internal consistency, and have been shown true by archeology which all put together makes them very trustworthy (contrasted with other ‘writings’ that don’t have those assurances)…even on the issue of evolution.
In my opinion, the very basis of the idea that the Bible itself is reliable as the revealed will of God is physical evidence that exists outside of the Bible itself which confirms the biblical statements. A rational mind is a gift of God and God expects us to use it. He wants to appeal to the mind, not just the emotions, with the Gospel message. Christianity is not anti-intellectual. It is primarily intellectual in that in Christianity the heart is supposed to follow the mind, not the other way round. The heart is important in Christianity when it comes to motive, but when it comes to understanding it is the mind that God strives to win over to His point of view.
If the heart is in the right place, earnestly seeking after the Truth, there is in fact abundant evidence for God and for the reliability of the Scriptures. I see little “risk” of being deceived given such a vast weight of evidence provided by God so that all will truly be without any real excuse during the last days of this Earth’s history…
In short, no one is going to be tricked out of Heaven – not even by Satan. The issues at the end of time will be very clear. The only ones that are going to be “deceived” by Satan with his “strong delusions” are those who want to be deceived. Those who are truly honest and sincere will be able to see the truth for what it is. God has promised that if we seek the Truth, seek Him, with all of our hearts, we will find what we are looking for.
– Sean Pitman
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Recent Comments by JohnB
Professor Kent: Informed Seventh-day Adventists are well aware that the world of science rejects a supernatural creation, yet the vast majority still believe. You should not mock their faith.
Au, Contraire Monsieur professeur, it was no mockery of faith, but merely a statement that there is room in this discussion for both faith AND evidence, and also we should not demonize Dr. Pitman for presenting the evidence!
Perhaps you would see that if you re-read again what the good Doctor wrote?
Certainly within this body of believers there is room for both faith And evidence in this discussion, and as Dr. Kime suggests, we would do well to combine them both.
For any of us to attempt to cause needless division by distorting that point is in fact the real mockery here. It should be completely below any and all of us to engage in such tactics.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
Ron: Don’t forget that Mrs. White implied that we would have to change some of our fundamental beliefs as truth progresses.
Ron, I think what you are implying is a very serious mis-reading of what she said and implied.
Also, how do you know she wasn’t addressing that to folks such as yourself that apparently don’t believe in the authority of Scripture? Maybe she was implying that you needed to come into closer harmony with Scripture?
I might remind you briefly of Proverbs 16:25 which says that “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
What I say doesn’t matter. What you say doesn’t matter. If either one of us is in rebellion against God, it won’t end well for for the one(s) in rebellion.
We might all do well to always remember that.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
@Ron:
“I think WASC should be commended for defending religious freedom within our schools. I am still mystified how the church can claim to believe in religious freedom and persecute their teachers”
Ron, the issue is not one of religious freedom. Each of these teachers is free to think and believe what they want to. I have absolutely no problem with that, and would most rigorously defend that right. However, they don’t have a right to sabotage their employer, which is LSU, and by extension, the Adventist Church at large.
Having a secret agenda (and pushing that agenda) which counters the beliefs of the church cannot be anything more or less than sabotage.
Everyone must be aware of his/her influence, and especially people in positions of authority. Officials at a school always represent the school, and if they don’t want that responsibility (or can’t handle that responsibility) then they should not accept that responsibility. It is very appropriate to ask them to resign if they cannot properly represent the school.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
I wish the leadership of our church would disavow all WASC and the like accreditations, and do self-accreditations instead. THAT would give the school TRUE autonomy.
The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account
It seems that ‘Conspire’ is more of an underhanded move by some in an unofficial capacity, while ‘ally’ is more of a sanctioned behavior. The difference between the two is primarily the one action being an allowed official behavior, while the other is a subversive behavior in rebellion to or against officially accepted behavior. In this context, ‘conspire’ is the correct word.
When I read the eyewitness account, I was struck by the similarity to the story of the rebellion in heaven, when Satan conspired against the government of heaven to ‘free’ its inhabitants from the ‘constraints’ of God’s Law. Revelation 12:7,8,9 goes on to say that “…there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out….”
In heaven, the ‘dragon’ and his angels were cast out. Will that happen at LSU? Only time will tell.
I think a battle is still brewing over this (with LSU) which will become more intense if the church does take a definite stand (which it should). We should all be prepared for it, because it will likely get pretty ugly.
As in heaven, so with LSU: Each person will have to take a stand. Each will have to take sides. These ‘conspirators’ are more out in the open now. They have prepared for battle, and I don’t think they have any intent of coming under the direction of or submitting to the control of the board (if it isn’t also compromised), nor of the church at large. They feel in control, and they aren’t going to back down. LSU as an Adventist university may be a lost cause.
Again, the similarities to the rebellion in heaven seem glaringly obvious. The words spoken by the prophet Samual to King Saul in 1 Samuel 15:23 seem applicable here too: “For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee….”
