To James Londis: True, the words of scripture SHOULD suffice–but unfortunately, …

Comment on Don’t Change Our Belief on Creation, the Words of Scripture Suffice by Faith.

To James Londis:

True, the words of scripture SHOULD suffice–but unfortunately, there is an element in the church that is trying to undermine the belief in scripture and/or creation by specifically designing  the wording of belief #6 to allow duplicitous interpretation. The wording NEEDS to be changed and the sooner the better.

Personally I am greatly disturbed that a member of this committee is so concerned about the possible division of the church and the opinions of the scientific community, and yet doesn’t seem as concerned as he should be that the doctrine of Creation is under attack and should be firmly defended by each and every member.

“It seems ominously clear to me that the agenda for this change is to demand that professors and pastors not only teach that the church’s position is at odds with evolutionary theory, but that they should subscribe to the church position without qualification.”

Uh…that is exactly what we are all supposed to do–believe in the church’s position on creation.  And that is exactly what the professors and teachers are supposed to do–support and teach the doctrine of Creation as it is held by the church.  Why is that so “ominous”?  If you don’t believe in the doctrines of the church, why are you here?  The doctrines are what make the church what it is.

“What rationale can be given for asserting to the world and to our members that the Seventh-day Adventist church is so certain about an issue that divides even the conservative evangelical world at present?”

The rationale is that we have the truth and that we are to defend the truth.  From what I have read above, you don’t seem to even be sure of the truth.  I don’t understand why you are not sure the church is right on this doctrine.  I am sure it is.  Just so you know, the conservative evangelical world is not our yardstick.  They don’t agree with other of our doctrines–are you saying we should cease to believe in them just because the conservative evangelical world doesn’t agree with them?  That would be sad indeed. 

In my opinion, there is far too much of this looking to the world for approval.  To do this is to do exactly what Peter did when walking on the water.  It is taking our eyes off Christ and looking to the world.  Anyone who does this is just as sure to sink as did Peter.

Do I think this issue is going to split the church?  I am almost certain it will.  It is called the shaking–we knew it was coming.  Many will depart from the faith because they have not a firm foundation.  The professors and teachers that are teaching heresy in our institutions are ensuring that the younger generations have been building on the sand and will be washed away when the storm hits.  Shame on them and shame on you and anyone who is waiting for the scientific community to prove doctrine for them.  Believe God’s word.  That is where salvation lies.

Recent Comments by Faith

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Mr Taylor,

After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.

How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.

Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.

Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.

Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.

Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:

“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…

Hi David,

As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.

I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.

I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.

Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.

God Bless you, David.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,

I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.

If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.

From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.

Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.

Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.

However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.

I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.

God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.