Comment on For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists by Johnny Vance.
@Professor Kent: Again you fail to give Biblical examples of dealing with apostasy. The Biblical examples that have been left on record for our benefit are too uncomfortable for you? Or maybe they’re just flawed…I suppose so. Disregard the Biblical precedence at your own peril and at the peril of all these young souls being deceived.
The adult Sabbath School lesson this week is about Jeroboam’s apostasy. The Lord sent a prophet to publicly rebuke him and cause enough cognitive dissonance in the minds of all the Israelites present to avoid the apostasy. God wanted to make a point and make it stick. The whole nation needed to know how serious this was. No compromise.
1)This rebuke was given publicly in front of all the nation
2) Jeroboam’s resistance caused God to wither his hand, even though he did not repent after being healed (rebellion).
3)The prophet sent to deliver the message was commanded by God to not eat nor drink in the land of Israel, in order to show how abominable this apostasy was.
4) The prophet was then killed by a lion after he disobeyed the Lord’s command, lest anyone cast doubt on the severity and validity of his message.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you really cared what Jesus would do in this situation, wouldn’t you consider what He left on record for our benefit? Jesus is not just your friend whom you can count on at all times; He is also your Lord and Savior and King of Kings, and He will not be mocked. Remember when He cast out the priests and money-changers from the temple and called them out publicly? Of course you do. And the same for many other examples. But for some reason you choose to ignore this. You can’t pick and choose. Professor Kent, you’re my brother in Christ, but I will not fail to call you out on this one. Standing for the Lord takes precedence over my relationship with even my closest relatives. The stakes are too high.
Enough precedence from Scripture and Spirit of Prophecy has been given here by many to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what we are to do in this situation. You choose to ignore it. I promise you that if the church as a whole knew what was going on in these classrooms, they’d rise up with righteous indignation. But we don’t want that to happen, do we? People like you want to obfuscate the true nature of this crisis, and so many in the church are confused as to what really is happening. Rocking the boat to stand for truth is not popular. Your solutions are lame-duck solutions. You have no Biblical support nor precedence nor inspired counsel to back you up. Your philosophy is bankrupt. Brother, let the Lord be your leader; the Lord of the Bible. Why kick against the pricks?
Johnny Vance Also Commented
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Professor Kent: If I caused you to stumble, then woe be unto me. I’d rather be blotted out from the Book of Life than be guilty of driving you out of the church.
But if your stumbling block is the rejected Cornerstone and the Word, why kick against the pricks? In all sincerity, I wish you the best, and that you may forgive me if I have offended you. Bring all your frustrations to the Lord in prayer and you’ll never leave His remnant church for He will satisfy you despite those of us you deem to be so evil. Pray for us as well. “And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary.” Galations 6:9
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Eddie: I appreciate your response. It seems to be heart-felt. I’ll admit that I cringe at having to address these issues in a public forum. Would you feel differently if for the mere sake of transparency videos, letters/emails, syllabi and the such were posted on here with no commentary to prevent the appearance of public criticism? Maybe the church needs to see how ugly and widespread the cancer really is. But I take issue with your definition of criticism in this case. There’s criticism of people for the sake of envy and resentment, etc., and then there’s criticism of wrong or good actions (constructive).
I just wonder how you propose to address the issue without considering the people behind the problem? Surely any denunciation of the error will be labeled character assasination. But this isn’t necessarily so. Note how Paul and other apostles publicly “criticized” those spreading error within their ranks. I know you love Dr. Ness, and I also believe he’s a good guy. But we cannot allow the open teaching of error because we like the guy. This is a tough issue to wrestle with, and my heart sinks for these people. But truth is more precious. If we stand for truth then the Lord will bless. He’s powerful enough to correct and save Dr. Ness and anybody else who may be in error (including myself) if the heart is willing.
My brother in Christ, I think we’re both wanting to solve the problem; but we have a difference of opinion. I’m open to Biblical correction. I trust that you’re bringing this to daily prayer as you wrestle with how to fulfill your sacred role of training young people at PUC. People are praying for you all who are sincerely seeking to present the Christ of the Bible. God bless.
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
Tell Johnny Vance that the Church functioned just fine with discipline issues prior to the internet, and that the internet isn’t the only way to work on this issue.
@Professor Kent: I’m just curious on a couple of points.
1) Does the Spectrum blog get the same criticism from you for its public and vitriolic rants against the church as Educate Truth? If not then I’d be curious to know why they get a pass.
2) If you think that Educate Truth is so bad, then why do you keep on feeding the fire by posting on it? Common sense would say that you’d shun it to prove it’s as irrelevant and as awful as you claim it to be. It’s ironic to note that you’re one of those who’s actually proving Educate Truth’s point.
3) I have yet to see you back up your accusations and rants with Biblical support. Do you just pick and choose at your convenience? There are many of us who want a better way. Please feel free to come up with a solution that will move people in a position of power to action. If not then you’re just playing ring-around-the-rosies with the devil while nothing gets done because there’s a lack of backbone in the house of God.
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I don’t understand why our educational institutions have ignored counsels from the Spirit of Prophecy. We are clearly told to NOT seek secular accreditation. Why do we care about WASC? Do we lack in faith to believe that God will uphold the credibility of His institutions?
Let all be reminded that Ivy league schools like Harvard DO NOT have accreditation. Their reputation precedes them. The Lord can do the same for His.
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At what point do we stop casting pearls to the pigs? I’m getting weary of this controversy.
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@Professor Kent:
@ Johnny VanceSo, YOU claim to be able to judge from the many student comments their philosophy and spirituality? And YOU can decipher, whilst I cannot, that the vast majority were “postmodern†and “lacking in spirituality?†And I can be deceived while YOU cannot?When you choose to believe the very few, Johnny, you reveal your obvious and very selective bias. You can cherry-pick as well as anyone here. And you’ve proven your arrogance. (Quote)
I’m not offended by Sean’s assertions about faith and evidence. I’m with Sean to a large extent (as far as I can tell). God gives us evidence to believe and back up His word, although there will be some things we’ll just have to take by faith until it’s made clear to our minds (maybe in Heaven?). But don’t try to use me as a pawn in your dislike of Sean.
You also neglect to note that in the great controversy between good and evil, the majority does not constitute the right side, unfortunately. Only 8 chose to enter the ark. Only a minority believed in Christ. Only a minority will resist the popular waves of anti-biblical worship. I can say that your judgment of students’ comments and Dr. Ness’s video are wrong, but how dare I say that you are wrong? I don’t believe it’s arrogant to say you are wrong. I’m not insulting you as you are insulting me. If we’re having an honest and open dialogue about the situation, then you should be able to AT LEAST take back what you dish out without threatening to leave the church because some of us dare to say you are wrong, or this and that is wrong. Don’t try to blackmail people for stating their mind.
I really wonder if you read the same Bible and the same Testimonies to the Church that I read, because I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can come up with such drastically opposed conclusions. I just state the former because you claim to believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and I am truly perplexed by your conclusion.
