Comment on For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists by Johnny Vance.
@Professor Kent: Apostasy usually comes from the top-down, and reformation and revival usually comes from the bottom-up. By the way, we are the church. I’m sure you knew that though.
I’m shocked that you’re ignoring all the efforts from students and others throughout the years. These efforts only work if you’re working with people who are sincerely seeking to represent the Lord and do what’s right. These people’s resistance through the years and their disregard for diplomatic and “respect”ful efforts have been disdained with contempt. This is open rebellion. You cannot diplomatically resolve these things when the other party is bent on rebellion. I fail to see even one hint that would label them as anything other than that. It’s simply just that–a rebellion. Keep in mind the supernatural power behind this rebellion…
I can tell you first-hand that students, parents and even some professors have gone about this very professionally, respectfully and lovingly for many years. Does the laity have no right to demand that their church institutions refrain from heresy and apostasy? Do you want God Himself to come down and purge His church? If some in leadership are in apostasy or are simply negligent, are we not responsible if we sit on our hands for fear of offending someone?
You ignored all the Biblical examples and examples from Ellen White that illustrate how to deal with public sins that affect the prosperity and welfare of the church. Taking care of problems is uncomfortable. But it must be done. When is enough, enough for you? I’m not seeing any solutions from you, except for complaining about those who dare call for accountability and reform. Is calling sin by its rightful name elitist? Your only solutions are the same niceties that have been ignored.
God has appointed you and me to spread the Gospel message. Lord knows that angels would do a better job, but He’s called us to His work. He calls out to sinners with an effort beyond our comprehension. If they reject Him continuously, they eventually seal their fate and choose of their own accord to be lost. In this controversy, what would seal the fate of those in rebellion before they can be asked to leave? These are sincere questions. I’m open to correction if you can convince me through Scripture and inspired counsel AND the God-given reasoning abilities to apply those timeless principles.
Johnny Vance Also Commented
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Professor Kent: If I caused you to stumble, then woe be unto me. I’d rather be blotted out from the Book of Life than be guilty of driving you out of the church.
But if your stumbling block is the rejected Cornerstone and the Word, why kick against the pricks? In all sincerity, I wish you the best, and that you may forgive me if I have offended you. Bring all your frustrations to the Lord in prayer and you’ll never leave His remnant church for He will satisfy you despite those of us you deem to be so evil. Pray for us as well. “And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary.” Galations 6:9
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Eddie: I appreciate your response. It seems to be heart-felt. I’ll admit that I cringe at having to address these issues in a public forum. Would you feel differently if for the mere sake of transparency videos, letters/emails, syllabi and the such were posted on here with no commentary to prevent the appearance of public criticism? Maybe the church needs to see how ugly and widespread the cancer really is. But I take issue with your definition of criticism in this case. There’s criticism of people for the sake of envy and resentment, etc., and then there’s criticism of wrong or good actions (constructive).
I just wonder how you propose to address the issue without considering the people behind the problem? Surely any denunciation of the error will be labeled character assasination. But this isn’t necessarily so. Note how Paul and other apostles publicly “criticized” those spreading error within their ranks. I know you love Dr. Ness, and I also believe he’s a good guy. But we cannot allow the open teaching of error because we like the guy. This is a tough issue to wrestle with, and my heart sinks for these people. But truth is more precious. If we stand for truth then the Lord will bless. He’s powerful enough to correct and save Dr. Ness and anybody else who may be in error (including myself) if the heart is willing.
My brother in Christ, I think we’re both wanting to solve the problem; but we have a difference of opinion. I’m open to Biblical correction. I trust that you’re bringing this to daily prayer as you wrestle with how to fulfill your sacred role of training young people at PUC. People are praying for you all who are sincerely seeking to present the Christ of the Bible. God bless.
For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
Tell Johnny Vance that the Church functioned just fine with discipline issues prior to the internet, and that the internet isn’t the only way to work on this issue.
@Professor Kent: I’m just curious on a couple of points.
1) Does the Spectrum blog get the same criticism from you for its public and vitriolic rants against the church as Educate Truth? If not then I’d be curious to know why they get a pass.
2) If you think that Educate Truth is so bad, then why do you keep on feeding the fire by posting on it? Common sense would say that you’d shun it to prove it’s as irrelevant and as awful as you claim it to be. It’s ironic to note that you’re one of those who’s actually proving Educate Truth’s point.
3) I have yet to see you back up your accusations and rants with Biblical support. Do you just pick and choose at your convenience? There are many of us who want a better way. Please feel free to come up with a solution that will move people in a position of power to action. If not then you’re just playing ring-around-the-rosies with the devil while nothing gets done because there’s a lack of backbone in the house of God.
Recent Comments by Johnny Vance
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@PUC Student: As a recent graduate of PUC, I strongly disagree with your assertion. Please provide proof to the contrary. If there’s nothing to hide, then providing it in any form should not be a problem 😉
Back to Square One…
On the issue of Harvard’s accreditation: I stand corrected! My apologies for my incomplete understanding of the matter…
Back to Square One…
I don’t understand why our educational institutions have ignored counsels from the Spirit of Prophecy. We are clearly told to NOT seek secular accreditation. Why do we care about WASC? Do we lack in faith to believe that God will uphold the credibility of His institutions?
Let all be reminded that Ivy league schools like Harvard DO NOT have accreditation. Their reputation precedes them. The Lord can do the same for His.
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At what point do we stop casting pearls to the pigs? I’m getting weary of this controversy.
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@Professor Kent:
@ Johnny VanceSo, YOU claim to be able to judge from the many student comments their philosophy and spirituality? And YOU can decipher, whilst I cannot, that the vast majority were “postmodern†and “lacking in spirituality?†And I can be deceived while YOU cannot?When you choose to believe the very few, Johnny, you reveal your obvious and very selective bias. You can cherry-pick as well as anyone here. And you’ve proven your arrogance. (Quote)
I’m not offended by Sean’s assertions about faith and evidence. I’m with Sean to a large extent (as far as I can tell). God gives us evidence to believe and back up His word, although there will be some things we’ll just have to take by faith until it’s made clear to our minds (maybe in Heaven?). But don’t try to use me as a pawn in your dislike of Sean.
You also neglect to note that in the great controversy between good and evil, the majority does not constitute the right side, unfortunately. Only 8 chose to enter the ark. Only a minority believed in Christ. Only a minority will resist the popular waves of anti-biblical worship. I can say that your judgment of students’ comments and Dr. Ness’s video are wrong, but how dare I say that you are wrong? I don’t believe it’s arrogant to say you are wrong. I’m not insulting you as you are insulting me. If we’re having an honest and open dialogue about the situation, then you should be able to AT LEAST take back what you dish out without threatening to leave the church because some of us dare to say you are wrong, or this and that is wrong. Don’t try to blackmail people for stating their mind.
I really wonder if you read the same Bible and the same Testimonies to the Church that I read, because I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can come up with such drastically opposed conclusions. I just state the former because you claim to believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and I am truly perplexed by your conclusion.
