The following is an excerpt from a document voted by the Michigan Conference Executive Committee May 25, 2010. The document was emailed to Educate Truth by two employees of the Michigan Conference (bold emphasis added):
Elder Gallimore
Whereas, the Adventist Review (in the article by Mark Kellner in April 15, 2010) has now publicly addressed the issue of evolution being taught at and supported by La Sierra University; and, whereas their board of trustees and constituency have collectively been unwilling to rectify this vital spiritual issue, the Michigan Conference Executive Committee has voted the following actions:
1. Effective June 1, 2010 the Michigan Conference has removed La Sierra University from its list of Adventist Colleges and Universities which qualify for employee subsidy. This means that no employee may expect tuition support if they have a dependent attending La Sierra.
2. With sorrow we feel it is our spiritual responsibility to notify Michigan Conference members that we do not believe that La Sierra can currently be trusted to be supportive of Seventh-day Adventist spiritual values especially in reference to faith in the biblical understanding of creation, and thus the authority of Scripture in the life and practice of the believer.
3. Resolved: To encourage each Seventh-day Adventist college and university to continue to strengthen the principles of biblical authority and faith. In support of these principles we urge continued development of educational strategies and faculties which would move these institutions to becoming centers of excellence in promoting, cultivating and defending creation science. We define creation science in the context of the recent creation week of seven ordinary, literal, historical, consecutive, contiguous twenty-four hour days of divine creation and rest as described in Genesis.
4. Furthermore: We request that the 2010 General Conference session vote a resolution affirming number 3 above, with the direction of bringing to the following GC session a statement that would serve to strengthen our fundamental belief number six. Hence, our Creation doctrine would clearly articulate our biblical view of “a literal, recent, six-day Creation,” in which “the seven days of the Creation account were literal 24-hour days forming a week identical in time to what we now experience as a week,” as the statement affirmed by the General Conference Executive Committee in October 2004 noted.
(Bold emphasis added)
Mcec Action Voted May 25, 2010
If you as a Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventist member wish to make a comment to the Michigan Conference about the above action, send an email with your comments to comments@misda.org.
See Evolution in Education? by Jay Gallimore
May 30, 2010
A former Seventh-day Adventist says: “I was a Seventh-day Adventist for 50 years. When I found that I could not believe in all the fundamentals, I politely left. I think that any individual, teacher, pastor, or institution that cannot believe in Ellen White, the 2300 years, 1844, a literal creation, or whatever else the church stands for, should not insist on being part of the organization. To me it was a matter of integrity not to pretend to be something I was not”.
My dear former SDA member, I salute you for your honesty and integrity, for leaving the church when you could no longer reconcile your beliefs with the teachings of the church. I heard Clifford Goldstein declare at the last GYC that he is a Seventh-Day Adventist because of the doctrines, I fully agree with Elder Goldstein. I also joined the church for the same reason, the doctrines, which are plain, simple, bible based and Christ centered.
To all those who reject the literal seven-day creation week like Professor Geraty, I want to appeal to you to be true to your convictions and do the most honorable thing, that is leave the church and stop calling yourselves Seventh-Day Adventists. Michael Adjei-Poku(Quote)
May 30, 2010
It is a traumatic thing to leave the church after being immersed (literally) in it. However, if the point comes that a person cannot keep their baptismal vow to support the church with their tithes and their influence, it is the only honorable thing to do. It is dishonest to stay in because of social or financial advantage when not believing the fundamentals. And those who subvert students in SDA schools, when they and their parents are making great sacrifices to receive an “Adventist” education, are traitors. If evolution is being taught as a superior model, the course should be clearly defined as such. former Seventh-day Adventist(Quote)
May 30, 2010
I think we need to be very careful about judging the motives of others in conclusions they have come to that radically differ from our understanding. SAul/Paul. working to destroy Christians, truly thought he was doing God’s work. While we need to decide if some things are right, if we should allow them in our midst, encourage them, and/or support them; we can leave to God the judging of what drives them in their belief. Shining(Quote)
May 30, 2010
former SDA, I do not know what specific beliefs seperate you from us, but I admire your kind spirit and pray as another poster said that God will give us all knowledge and wisdom so that we may be in unity. Shining(Quote)
May 30, 2010
Bill Sorensen lists 6 positions that he feels are non-negotiable for SDA’s, namely:
1. Creation as revealed in Gen. 1.
2. The Seventh day Sabbath.
3. State of the dead.
4. Issues on the visible and literal second coming.
5. 1844 and the pre-advent judgment.
6. Validity of the ministry of EGW.
I would hope that belief in God, and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior would top the list. If that were the case, and the last two (#5-6) were optional, I could be a good Seventh-day Adventist. Ellen was a tireless worker and inspirational writer, but to believe that everything she wrote was “rays of light direct from the throne of God” is just too much for me to handle. I have studied her works extensively. former Seventh-day Adventist(Quote)
May 30, 2010
former Seventh-day Adventist,
The Bible is of the same metal as the writings of Mrs. White. Neither is perfect. Both have some mistakes, some errors. As the moon can only reflect light from the sun, does not originate light and may reflect it imperfectly at times, so the Bible, as the “lesser light,” is but a reflection of the light from Jesus, the “Sun of righteousness” (see Malachi 4:2).
All scripture is given for our benefit and instruction (2 Timothy 3:16). Yet as the “lesser light” it should be obvious that it does not present the full amount of truth that one might receive from Christ, the Greater Light. Jesus could not possibly convey to us the entire body of truth in a few books. He does, however, give us the essential education for our salvation, and I believe that Mrs. White has written a great amount of helpful instructions that are relevant in our day.
Certainly, on this issue of Creation vs Evolution, Mrs. White speaks plainly, and if we were to accept her writings as a church, this controversy would be dead.
Erik Erik(Quote)
May 30, 2010
@former Seventh-day Adventist:
Indeed – those are among the Fundamental Beliefs of Sevent-day Adventists – they are among the ones specific to the point of the subject of creation vs evoluitonism.
Those are also included in the Fundamental Beliefs – but are not as directly challenged by evolutionism. Thus one would not start by saying “you do no believe in God” or “you have no faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, because you believe in the doctrines of evolutionism”.
If you are arguing that evolutionist must not believe in Christ as Lord – if they promote evolution – that is an interesting idea – but not one that has been the keystone of this discussion.
May 30, 2010
Theologian Des Ford was “defrocked” for having alternate views on the 2300 days.
Should a university professor be allowed to not only have, but teach views contrary to stated SDA beliefs in schools devoted to graduating students solid in the faith?
Des Ford presented his views to a group of seasoned theologians. I find this more appropriate than incorporating non-SDA views into student curriculum.
I believe that an apology is owed to Des Ford for this double standard. former Seventh-day Adventist(Quote)
May 30, 2010
Yes, I did ask, but you haven’t offered anything. I asked Professor Kent if he had any ideas, but he offered none. By the way, why is it that you two quote each other? He quotes you on AToday and you quote him on Educate Truth. It’s as if the two of you can’t comment on the same thread for some reason.
So what would you do if you were in my shoes? How would you handle things? I’m open to hear suggestions. Many things were tried before the website was put up. What does one do when those who are responsible aren’t addressing the problem? Shane Hilde(Quote)
May 31, 2010
As I see it, this whole controversy boils down to one simple thing as far as I am concerned: Do we believe that the Bible is the living, life changing, Word of the God of the universe or do we not? Do we believe that this God is the all-powerful, all knowing Being He claims to be or don’t we? Believing in creation, as such, will never save anyone. It is in knowing, loving and believing in the all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful God of creation that will.
I am not against studying ABOUT evolution in our schools. Our young people are bound to be met with in someday, somewhere–but that study MUST be done in the light of “thus saith the Lord” which ALWAYS should be center-front regardless of what we are studying. When we once start “reasoning” outside of the Bible we are on very dangerous ground. Mankind, led by the arch-deceiver, can always find a “reason” to doubt, to question, to turn his back on a “thus saith the Lord.” It happened to Eve in the Garden and it has been happening to Eve’s descendants ever since. But it always ends in destruction in one form or another. Always! If any theory does not agree with Scripture it is always wrong and the work of the arch deceiver. Always!!!
Please, let’s stop our bickering and unite on the one sure foundation of “thus saith the Lord.” It is the only “sure thing” in this world and to venture off of that foundation will only end in suffering the second and final death. It is simply to big a risk to take.
I firmly believe that we are living in the very “toenails” of the image of Daniel 2 and that King Jesus will soon burst through the starry skies to gather His faithful people and take them Home. This is not the time to be led astray by the many winds of false doctrine that are going to grow more and more powerful as time goes on. We must return to being the “people of the Book,” as Adventists were once called, if we want to be among the faithful ones who, with rapture, will exclaim “This is our God–we have waited for Him and He will save us. This is the Lord–we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation!” Lydian Belknap(Quote)
May 31, 2010
@ Faith
Faith,
I must respectfully disagree (and respectfully is the way we should all disagree) that the point of a student attending a college or university is to learn from we who supposedly know what is right and true. Any professor who claims to have discovered all there is to know on a subject is disingenuous. We never (and neither should we claim to) arrive at a place where there is nothing more to learn or nothing to debate or struggle over. If we could arrive at such a place, there would be no need for the liberal arts university as an institution. The university environment has always been the place for “collaborative struggle” in all fields of learning. If we are not willing to put students in an environment to think for themselves, I believe that they will never function as autonomous individuals, they will never become adults.
At what age do we trust our students to engage difficult issues like these for themselves? Nearly all of our students come to us already having reached the age of majority (18), and at what point will we be finished completing the foundation and declare the students ready to handle the issues subsequently thrown their way? I believe that the university is the perfect place to confront these issues and where godly and committed professors, administrators and staff are there to help and to safely guide students in that journey. The educational process can be uncomfortable for some (as it was for me) but that does not mean that it is not beneficial. Our university environment is certainly a better place for them to learn these things than in a frat house party or on a street corner somewhere. This is about as passionately as anyone will see me speak on an issue, except of course my own research fields!
David Kendall, PhD
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
May 31, 2010
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Greetings from Asia! How amazing and fortunate we have the Holy Bible and also the writings of Mrs Ellen G White to guide us in times such as these. Where right seems wrong and wrong seems right.
The Great Controversy’s first version dated 1858, Chapter 32 on The Shaking, Mrs White in her vision saw and wrote:
“I saw some with strong faith and agonizing cries, pleading with God…
Some, I saw did not participate in this work of agonizing and pleading. They seemed indifferent and careless. They were not resisting the darkness around them, and it shut them in like a thick cloud. The angels of God left them, went to the aid of those earnest, praying ones…
I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen. I was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the true Witness to the Laodiceans… These straight testimony some will not bear. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God’s people.
I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded…
The numbers of this company had lessened. some had been shaken out, and left by the way. The careless and indifferent who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to agonize, persevene, and pled for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their numbers were immediately made up by others taking hold of the truth, and coming into the ranks. Still the evil angels pressed around them, but they could have no power over them.
I heard those clothed with the armor speak forthe the truth in great power. it had effect… All fear of their relatives was gone. The truth alone was exalted to them. It was dearer and more precious than life. They had been hungering and thirsting for truth. I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered, It is the latter rain; the refreshing from the presence of the Lord; the lour cry of the third angel.
Great power was with these chosen ones….. I saw measures taken against this company….yet there they stood, approved of God, and trusting in him. I saw them perplexed. Thy will, O God be done! If it can glorify thy name, make a way of escape for thy people! Deliver us from heathen round about us! They have appointed us unto death; but thine arm can bring salvation.”
Perhaps, we are beginning to or soon to be entering the period that is described above. If so, may we prayerfully and earnestly search our hearts and minds…
To those who stand up for truth according to the Bible, may God continue to give them strength and courage and double portion of His Spirit and power to walk in the light. To those who go against the Bible and the Almighty Creator, it is my prayer that the Holy Spirit will convict you of your stand.
There is really no absolute proof for or against Creation or Evolution. Both require certain element of faith. It’s a fact that no human being has ever seen how God created the world! Not even Adam, the first human being! Therefore, no one, not even Adam can proof beyond doubt that God has indeed created the world. Likewise, evolution is a theory that is conceived by man and is still being tested and modified and proof or disproof after 100 years.
So, would one want to base his or her faith on the Holy Bible or Darwin’s theory of evolution?
I choose to be on the side of the Holy Bible. Why?
Only because I have experienced and know the author of this Sacred Book. Therefore, I believe in its account of Creation in six literal days and also in its genealogy that indicated how long was this world created. What’s more, I see the beauty, perfect patterns, amazing colour, great variety…. of flowers and plants and animals and fishes and birds… which reveals to me that there must be indeed a wise, artistic and all powerful Creator of all these living things.
Yours in Christ,
David J Tan
ASI President
Southern Asia=Pacific Division David J Tan(Quote)
May 31, 2010
David Kendall used the phrase “safely guide” in reference to the education of students. It seems that full disclosure of course content would be a good start. The objectives of the course should be openly stated. The description should tell the leanings of the professor. The course description should state if the course promotes evolution as a superior model, or if it promotes design/creation as a superior model. The course description should also disclose whether or not the curriculum meets SDA standards/guidelines. This way parents and students could safely choose if they want an education that is in harmony with their religious beliefs, or a secular education. There is a time and place to deal with tough subject matter, but non-SDA views should not be introduced surreptitiously into the curriculum, posing as “Adventist education”. If a school is claiming to be a Seventh-day Adventist institution, it should uphold SDA ideals and philosophy. Basic honesty. former Seventh-day Adventist(Quote)
May 31, 2010
@former Seventh-day Adventist:
Exactly! Such clear headedness on these basic issues and you’re no longer a Seventh-day Adventist? That is unfortunate because we sure need more people with at least this much basic common sense in our Church…
Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com Sean Pitman(Quote)
May 31, 2010
Justin,
Excellent point. It is those who have been teaching and propagating falsehood, evolution or theological or moral, that are shattering the unity we as Seventh-day Adventist Christians should find in Jesus Christ. I have read most of the posts and did not realize that the issue had come so far. Thank God that the Michigan Conference has already made a stand. Now, we must pray for the General Conference soon to be convening in Atlanta to prayerfully consider a much larger response through the guidance of the Holy Spirit Who has already guided us through similar trouble in the past. The Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy are clear. Through confession and repentance the Lord is able to lead us through this in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Creator and Savior. Amen. Dean Read(Quote)
May 31, 2010
BTW, the SDA student pointed out something important when they said evolution is openly taught at their school. It is really not important to find out where that school is, we need to consider all our schools. I know for sure that not only is evolution not being taught as a good explanation at the school close to me. Moreover, our school decided last year to be very intentional about preparing our kids for the big E in or out of our ed system. We no longer assume others will continue what we have begun. Shining(Quote)
May 31, 2010
We need to be careful not to paint all schools with the same brush. While I’m certain that there are some in other SDA U’s who are promoting Evolutionism, it is not anywhere near the problem as it is in LSU. And If appropriate action is taken at LSU, then there will be a domino effect through out all the schools and those who will not agree to teach what the Church expects, will be weeded out. Allen Roy(Quote)
May 31, 2010
I think we need to consider the philosophy behind the modern movement in Christanity in general. And then see how this philosophy has affected and infiltrated Adventism.
EGW has said something to this effect, “As the Jews rejected Christ and the gospel in their defense of the law, the last generation of professing Christians will abandon the full import of the law in the name of the gospel.”
Thus, the Jews judged harshly with little or no real application of grace. And it led to a self righteous attitude of exclusiveness and demonstrated a false picture of God and His kingdom. They assumed to determine who could and would be saved as individuals and who would not. To preceive an over all picture of the kingdom of God by way of scripture, and then warn people in general of the final judgment is not only right and needful, but commendable for the believing community to advocate truth in this context.
Catholicism, like the Jews claim the authority for the church to judge final salvation and thus we have “St Peter” at the gate to decide who can go and in who can not. This illustrates the false authority Rome has claimed for itself concerning judgment and salvation.
Now we have in the world today an “apostate Protestant” view of salvation which claims we can “judge” no one on any level since we can not judge their final salvation. Modern Adventism has embraced this false view of judging and thus allowed some gross evil to come into the church. Not only refusing to condemn sin, but actually embracing it and pushing individuals into high positions of influence and authority who have little or no qualification to be there.
If is it sin to pre-judge individuals as though we can know the final outcome and thus condemn anyone who we discern is not in harmony with the bible, then we can ask, “How is this worse than claiming we can forgive anyone with no accountability?”
I strongly suspect we are “forgiving” people even God won’t forgive and in so doing, place ourselves above God. Is it more self righteous to condemn when God has not condemned, than to forgive what God has not forgiven?
This is no small issue. The only way you can “sell” universalism, the final deception, is to warp forgiveness beyond its biblical perspective and allow every evil in the church in the name of the gospel, coupled with the false idea that no one can “judge” on any level.
We must distinguish between the final judgment of God at the end of the world, and present on-going judgment day by day in the human experience. The church not only has a right to judge, but must necessarily do so to preserve any semblance of bible Christanity in the Christian community. And while the judgment of the church is limited and relative, it is none the less approved by God who says “Judge righteous judgment”.
“Judge not, that ye be not judged” certainly does not apply in this situation. But is continually quoted and used to negate individual and church responsibility in administrating the principles of God’s kingdom in the church.
Thus, we “rock and roll” around the golden calf, wear anything we please, and worship “we know not what” all in the name of this false gospel. The longer the church continues to refuse to act in righteous judgment, the more difficult it becomes to do so as time goes by. The devil gets a firmer and firmer grip on the church and his influence increases as he is not opposed openly and decidely by those in responsible positions.
The conflict with LSU and creation vs. evolution is a classic example of this reality. And the organized church response is equally expected based on past activity or non-activity as the case may be.
Unless we understand spiritualism (a false gospel), we can not preceive what exactly is happening nor know how to deal with it individually as church members or a corporate church movement.
Keep the faith
Bill Sorensen Bill Sorensen(Quote)
May 31, 2010
To Elder Gallimore and to the other members of the leadership in the Michigan Conference I applaud you and the Christian stand you have taken! You are upholding God’s cause and ‘His’ standards that were being pulled to the ground. The damage done to our youth I personally have seen in our church and they falter in their walk as Seventh-day Adventists. May God uphold you and strengthen you for this priceless stand that you have taken! I also applaud our youth, of whom Shane Hilde is a representative, it strengthens my own belief in our future when such strong, spiritual young men step forward. May God bless all of you and may all our other Universities and Acadamies review their stand on Creation and all of our beliefs.
Judith Judith(Quote)
May 31, 2010
@ BobRyan
Do you mean that a man’s (or woman’s) position is vindicated by intelligent and reasoned responses by those who oppose, or by unintelligent and unreasoned responses by the same?
The statement was a bit of verbal irony, characterizing the views of one set of observers from the perspective of another set of observers, and is intended to illustrate what happens to a particular position when it is taken to one of its logical conclusions. In this case we might say that the moral of the irony is: “the knife cuts both ways.”
You remain very concerned with the “objective observer.” Who is this observer and how does he or she remain objective?
Pax,
David Kendall, PhD
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
May 31, 2010
Clarification: The first part of the quote is from Geanna Dane, while the second and third parts are BobRyan’s response. Sorry for the confusion, I put a quote within a quote; bad academic form! David Kendall, PhD(Quote)
June 1, 2010
Praise God For the Stand Pr Gallimore and the commitie took .. i have followed this appostacy for some time LSU. its a problem here in australia as well.. We need More Faithful men to take a stand for the truth and for OUR WONDERFUL GOD AND CREATER AND SOON COMING KING… I Pray for our church and institutions the young people will raise up and stand for the truth .. carol stent(Quote)
June 1, 2010
God bless the Michigan Conference leadership and all involved with their decision, and their strong stand for truth in the face of faith-destroying error. Although I’m unfamiliar with the specifics of La Sierra’s errant teachings, ANYTHING supporting the evolutionary theory simply has to be wrong, and wrong to teach in our churches and educational institutions. Why? Perhaps most importantly, it undermines the 4th Commandment, in wbich God Himself, with His own hand, wrote, “For in six days….” And of course, it calls into question the Genesis account of God’s six days of creative activity, and in so doing, encourages doubt in the whole of Scripture. (I’ll leave it to Cliff Goldstein and others much wiser than I to explain from the Hebrew why these clearly are literal 24-hour days/nights.) From a common sense standpoint, how could the vegetation created on Day Three have survived a thousand years (or however much longer) without the sun’s light and warmth, which were brought into existence on Day Four, or, in many plant species, without the assistance of the bees, which were created on Day Five? If one doesn’t have faith in the validity of Scripture, a reading of Michael Behe’s “Darwin’s Black Box” should convince anyone with a true heart and an open mind that although you cannot prove Creation, you can indeed DISprove evolution; it is simply impossible. Millions have given their lives in support of the Bible. The Michigan Conference stalwarts and all who support them are honoring God and those millions, and God has said,”Them that honor Me, I will honor.” La Sierra leaders and faculty, if you offend in one Scriptural area, you offend in all. Please humble yourselves and come to your spiritual senses and become, once again, an influence on your students for good, and not for heresy. Bill Weber(Quote)
June 1, 2010
I’m SO glad to hear that the Michigan Conference did this tho it does make me very sad. Jeanne(Quote)
June 1, 2010
It’s about time that someone has a backbone [edit]. It’s a shame that we have teachers who profess to be SDA’s, but are far from it. The Bible tells us that those who would be of the seed of Abraham will do the works of Abraham. I am a 5th generation SDA, but should I give up the faith and doctrines that have made us a peculiar people, I am no longer what I profess to be. Profession means nothing, for it is by our fruits that we will be known and read of all men.
Heaven help us to be the people we have been called to be. May we each one firmly decide to take a stand for truth, and climb higher up the heavenly ladder.
Diana G. Diana G(Quote)
June 2, 2010
Sorry, but I have to share my thoughts on this subject:
First of all, I am offended by the Michigan Conference’s use of the word “condemn” as if they have been Divinely appointed to openly attack other SDA institutions?! Does anyone think that this might be wrong?
Why are some Adventists and our SDA Church so fearful of any type of scientific evidence that might actually give us some light on the Bible and our human existence?
I took an amazing class last summer at LSU on Evolution and Creation. There is so much evidence that makes you think:” has our church played God for too long with us?” I hope not.
Seems like a very old-school Catholic mentality to me: Don’t educate anyone so that they don’t discover the truth for themselves! Don’t allow mind to wonder too far, because we might actually learn something new that might make us question our beliefs.
I remember that 20+ years ago many of our churches denied clear evidence of the existence of dinosaurs (who’s bones were discoved even back in the 18oo’s). I actually believed the church as a girl until we all witnessed the evidence of actual archeological discoveries of dinosaur bones all over the world appearing before our eyes.
Why are we (if we are to be the last day church) still living and preaching the 19th Century theology? Our church needs to stop playing and start praying for enlightment and wisdom in this new age we are living in!
Do we believe that our God is also the greatest Scientist? If we do, then we better start looking at some serious scientific facts that cannot be disputed, and stop hanging on to the skirts of a group of old theologians who are scared of facing the truth that we (SDA church) might not have ALL the divine knowledge and power! If we stop reading and learning, then we stop thinking and understanding just how big God and His creation really is.
So, in my view I fully support La Sierra in trying to take a holistic approach to teaching science and expose its students to the wider scientific truth that opens a discussion between Christian students and those who aren’t about scientific facts that need to be included in today’s SDA educational system. We cannot sit blindly anymore as passive students, but active teachers of the truth. They say that “truth hurts” and I think that this just might be the case in our church.
God expects us all to keep studying His word and His WORLD, not regurgitate the truths we know, but find new ways of understanding and thinking that applies to current world, day, and age.
“Study to show thyself approved…”
Alan alan(Quote)
June 2, 2010
Not much backbone out here in California! Look and see for yourselves. Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
June 2, 2010
Alan: Wow. How is it that you had been not told what the SDA church really teaches? No Dinosaurs? You gotta be kidding. I’m 59 and all my life I’ve known that Dinosaurs existed before the Flood and died in the Flood. (I’m currently studying for a degree in dinosaur Palentology.) The Adventist Book Centers have been selling books on Noah’s Flood and dinosaurs and how all geology fits into the flood for many many decades. What planet have you been on??
So in effect, you go to LSU ignorant of SDA teaching on Creation and Flood geology. No wonder LSU gets away with it! Allen Roy(Quote)
June 3, 2010
I highly recommend David C. Read’s book ‘Dinosaurs: An Adventist View’; it outlines clearly the traditional Adventist perspective on this subject.
Bro. Roy, Like to talk with you sometime. Here’s my email:
revelationunlocked@gmail.com Victor Marshall(Quote)
June 3, 2010
Alan,
You speak in general terms about having our minds open to new truth as God may reveal it, and, you said, about “…some serious scientific facts that cannot be disputed….” Would you please be more specific?
It’s once thing to have an open mind so that we’ll be able to accept new revelations from God, but a whole different thing if we have an open mind that absorbs anything and everything new, or new to us, that we’re presented with. God wants us to reason together with Him (and I might extend that to “let us reason together” among one another).
And so I repeat, please be specific about what you believe should or shouldn’t be accepted by Seventh-day Adventists concerning the Creation versus Evolution discussion. I think Allen Roy already addressed the topic of dinosuars, although I feel that his ad hominem question, “What planet have you been on?” adds nothing to this conversation but heat, not light.
Thanks, Alan. Bill Weber(Quote)
June 3, 2010
Alan says:
“So, in my view I fully support La Sierra in trying to take a holistic approach to teaching science and expose its students to the wider scientific truth that opens a discussion between Christian students and those who aren’t about scientific facts that need to be included in today’s SDA educational system. We cannot sit blindly anymore as passive students, but active teachers of the truth. They say that “truth hurts” and I think that this just might be the case in our church.
God expects us all to keep studying His word and His WORLD, not regurgitate the truths we know, but find new ways of understanding and thinking that applies to current world, day, and age.
“Study to show thyself approved…”
Alan you ended your posting with a partial quotation of Paul’s admonition to Timothy, the full text reads, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”. 2 Timothy 2 : 15. What is TRUTH?. The Jesus says in John 17:17 “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth”. Yes our minds have to be open to accept my revelations BUT only if they are in harmony with the standard bearer, the BIBLE. Jesus promised us that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter will not teach us anything that will contradict his own teaching. We are on dangerous ground if we just open our minds to embrace anything and everything that is out there in the world. Michael Adjei-Poku(Quote)
June 3, 2010
One of my favorite internet sites is Nasa’s Hubble pictures. Going there this week I found out the the scientists have had their theories about the universe which I was required to learn in public school, debunked. Amazing how they keep changing what they say is the way it is, and I am supposed to take their word for it that their ever-changing “facts” overturn the acceptability of Genesis.Even if I didn’t believe the Bible, just based on what naturalistic evolution scientists themselves have been pontificating for the last 100 years, I would not consider them reliable. Shining(Quote)
June 3, 2010
Alan writes of “wider scientific truth” and “scientific facts” that need to be included by our educational institutions in their classes. It’s one thing to present them as information held by many/most people so the students know how to deal with such issues, but quite another to support them and teach that those issues/”truths”/”facts” supercede clear Biblical statements to the contrary which refute them.
Alan also writes, “God expects us all to keep studying His word and His WORLD, not regurgitate the truths we know, but find new ways of understanding and thinking that applies to current world, day, and age.”
Stating, or “regurgitating,” as Alan put it, what we’ve believed about such things as a literal six days of Creation doesn’t make those beliefs wrong. Granted, we might do well to present these beliefs in new ways to better appeal to our current world, but we ought not change our beliefs while doing so. Rather than adding more questions about the truth of the Genesis account, some of the relatively latest scientific discoveries are providing answers — such as the discovery of soft tissue found in T. rex bones. Might we learn newer things in the Creation versus Evolution controversy? Of course. But any such new information will not, can not, discount what God has made clear regarding the subject.
Might there be questions about such things as what is meant by the earth being “without form and void” at that first day of Creation? I believe so. But there’s no need — after examining the Biblical statements based on sound exegesis of the Hebrew and reviewing all the scientific evidence available to the open mind — for questioning, for example, whether the Creation days were literal 24-hour time periods or, instead, a thousand-plus years long. (Please refer to my June 1 post.) Truth can withstand the closest of scrutiny, and so I say, Bring it on! (I humbly admit I am not a scientist but one who, like anyone with an open mind, an honest heart, a prayerful attitude, a concordance, and an Internet connection, can clearly see what “the truth” really is, and isn’t.) Bill Weber(Quote)
June 3, 2010
As you have stated, no one knows or even claims to know how the universe was created, except those who believe in God’s Word. Is God a liar? I don’t think so! Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
June 4, 2010
I was 33 years old when I left the “world” of atheism, drugs, alcohol (etc) and started reading the Bible. I fell in love with it cover to cover, old testament and new; but had one problem – where was the church that REALLY preached what the Bible stated?
I had never heard of Seventh-day Adventists until one day I happened to start working with one (fate? I don’t think so!). Here was a church that preached, to me, EVERYTHING the Bible states. Yes I had problems at the beginning with the perception of Ellen White as a “prophetess” and remember trying to dispute that claim by comparing the Desire of Ages to the Biblical record. I would say that 99% was totally accurate and the other 1%, while not found directly in the Bible can be justified by the Bible writers.
I stand as one not seeking to justify SDA doctrines but as nothing more than Biblical ones. I realize that others can claim the same story, that their reading of the Bible did just the opposite, drove them away from SDA doctrines. On the Day of Judgment we will each stand before the all seeing eye of One who will make known why we choose the way we did and the real reasons behind our decisions.
As I read these statements I am glad for the ones who chose to leave rather than “change” the church though I am at the same time sad that they made the decision to turn from what they feel are the unjustifiable conclusions made by other Christians over why SDA doctrines are unorthodox. I make no theological conclusions here as that only breeds argument, the best recommendation is to ask Jesus to totally clear our minds of ALL preconceived notions and start from the Bible with a mind to learn His truths.
God help us to be unyielding in our stand and defiance of Truth yet compassionate for those that differ from us – until one or the other seeks to stand directly in the way of others and their salvation then we are compelled to stand as Jesus did against the leaven of the Pharises, Sadducees, and Herodians that search the world for proselytes only to make them twice a child of hell such as themselves.
LSU as made a decision that is not yet unrevokable though they have not yielded to the right side yet (evolution? please! At a time when other scientists are coming over to the truth of creation, Adventists are trying to say Evolution is correct). Ellen White wrote when this time as come we are to sell it off to the world, this also is not being done. While the headship of the church moans the results, what are they actually doing to right the wrongs? Nothing! (thank God the Michigan Conference is though!)
I love my church as the church of Biblical prophecy but fully realize that as the church militant, she is dying from internal wounds other than what is going on at LSU. As God stated, the whole head is sick. We must stick together, seek to put godly men in positions of trust, point out error and sin wherever found, and pray for the Lords guidance until He comes. God help us! Bill Wennell(Quote)
June 4, 2010
There is some serious irony in the Michigan Conference reprimanding LSU for teaching modern, and widely accepted, scientific principals. I think that this shows just how out of touch many church leaders are with their parishioners. If the church is not going to accept those of us who have room in our hearts for faith and science, the pews will be nearly empty within 20 years. How’s that for evolution? -m(Quote)
June 5, 2010
m, no one is reprimanding LSU for teaching modern scientific principles. Indeed the Mi. Conference is all for these things, but what they are standing against is our teachers teaching those things as true that the Bible teaches us are untrue. Evolution teaches that God deceived us and is a liar, in fact ultimately it tries to prove there is no God.
If our churches pews are nearly empty in 20 years but we have stood true to God then I say praise God for those who have remained true to Him. Richard Sherwin(Quote)
June 5, 2010
@-m:
I hope the church pews will be “burned up” in twenty years, but if time should last, I, by the grace of God, will be seated in one!
Remember, “…broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat…” (Matthew 7:13) Only eight were saved in the flood… and they didn’t believe the “modern, and widely accepted, scientific principles.” Besides, evolution is NOT a scientific principle.
Be careful the ground you tread…
“Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve Him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 24:14-15)
Lee Folkman
http://www.NarrowWayMedia.org Lee Folkman(Quote)
June 7, 2010
To all those interested in the “truth” about evolution.
Visit amazingdiscoveries.org and view the testimony of Walter Veigh.
He is a Zoologist (a Ph.D Scientist), a staunch evolutionist who dared to truly review the “evidence” and as a result became an SDA creationist.
In mathematical and biological terms, evolution is impossible. Read the book “Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome” by Dr. John Sanford – available at Amazon.com Miguel Vasquez(Quote)
June 7, 2010
Miguel, You’re absolutely correct. There is simply no empirical evidence for evolution occurring or empirical mechanism for how it would have occurred. Numerous books have been written on this subject by zoologists, mathematicians, geneticists, and others. Ron Stone M.D.(Quote)
June 7, 2010
If the theory of evolution is true, then the bible is a book of fairy tales. How could anyone trust anything it says?
The bible states that God cannot lie. If man evolved from lower species, then Adam was not created from dust as stated in Genesis. And since the lower species died before Adam evolved, death existed before sin. Worshiping the Trinity would be no different than worshiping Zeus, Poseidon, or Baal. David Smith(Quote)
June 16, 2010
@Miguel Vasquez: Thanks. I will read that.@Ron Stone M.D.: See a current thread on WE HAVE A MILLION ADVENTISTS ON FACEBOOK. tHE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT CREATION VS. EVOLUTION. PATRICIA HARVEY(Quote)
June 19, 2010
I am thankful for the stand that the Michigan Conference has taken. Praise God for leaders that are forward thinking and not afraid to take a stand! I pray that other conferences will do the same. God bless the leadership in the Michigan Conference! Ruth deGraaff(Quote)
June 19, 2010
@David Smith:
no wonder then that 3SG 90-91 calls theistic evolutionism the worst form of infidelity.
in Christ,
Bob BobRyan(Quote)
June 21, 2010
This is devastating to me and my family. My dad has worked at La Sierra for nearly 20 years. The employee tuition benefits are a benefit that makes up for the low pay the employees receive. We have planned on those benefits to get through college, since my dad’s pay was insufficient for college savings over the years, and now that me and by 2 siblings are finally in college are benefits are to be taken away as a result of the Michigan Committee action. Marissa Channer(Quote)
June 21, 2010
@Marissa Channer: I don’t think you understand the Michigan Conference action. It doesn’t effect you at all unless your parents are employees of the Michigan Conference, but since your dad is employed at LSU, you have nothing to be concerned about. Shane Hilde(Quote)
June 25, 2010
I praise the Michigan Conference for taking some sort of stand on this issue but ask the question why can they not simply close the college if those running it will not conform to church beliefs. I know with modern labour laws that sacking them could be difficult. However, I wonder why this could not be got around by just closing it?
Looking at the bigger picture, I am sure this sort of thing has been pending for some time since the decision in 1931 (or about) to go for accreditation with Catholic/wordly universities. Tony Rigden(Quote)
July 2, 2010
Why is it that La Sierra would base their science on the minds of men-(Evolution) and not on the mind of our Creator God? Why believe in God at all? God rules all because He is our Creator. The only reason men are so desparate to believe in Evolution is because they do not want to answer to anyone but themselves. The other thing that disturbs me in the teachings at La Sierra is their teaching on how to interpret the Bible. By allowing as much leeway as possible in interpretation we can become our own authority on truth. Do they think that they are so much more intelligent than our Creator? Just because we don’t have intelligence as high as God and therefore do not understand how God could create our Universe in seven days does not mean that he did not do it. I have seen better arguments for Intelligent Design on websites such as answersingenesis.com than I have ever heard from Evolution. I would never allow my child to attend such an institution-you might as well attend a secular school. In an attempt to undermine our Creator and His Bible, La Sierra is upholding humanism and is no better than a secular college. Edith Herb(Quote)
July 4, 2010
Great! Removing La Sierra from the list for subsidy will only make a martyr out of the school administration. And that tends to make a cause stronger. The SDA Michican conference is doing more harm to itself than good.
Now, should La Sierra teach Evolution? You bet! Not teaching evolution from an evolutionary perspective leaves many Christians ignorant of what Evolutionary theory is. — And let’s face it! Most SDAs don’t even understand Evolution!
As a SDA (in name only), I think the teaching of Evolution (from the evolutionary perspective, and NOT a Creationist perspective) is actually a good thing because it will show the students WHAT the theory and fact of Evolution say. Not allowing them to learn it is only going to leave them ignorant.
Punishing La Sierra is not a good idea, in short. krissmith777(Quote)
July 6, 2010
Kris,
Teaching about evolution is very different from espousing it. That’s what one or more La Sierra professors reportedly are doing, and that’s the crux of the whole discussion here. Theistic evolution is being taught, and La Sierra is permitting it. Bill Weber(Quote)
July 17, 2010
@krissmith777:
Great liberal minds always think the same, they can judge the outcome. Outcome based decisions ignore principled decisions. Christ on the cross could not see through the grave, a great example of a principled decision!
Thank you Michigan for standing on principle. MLB(Quote)
July 17, 2010
I am not a liberal. krissmith777(Quote)