Comment on Eugenie Scott’s Letter of Alarm – “Evolution Under Attack” by Charles.
I hope I can share this here.
I have begun reading The Story of Redemption by EG White. I’d like to put a couple of paragraphs that I came across – words that so perfectly present a message that is OPPOSITE of the notions of evolutionary thought – including notions of “Theistic Evolution”.
Adam was carried down through successive generations and saw the increase of crime, of guilt and defilemnent, because man would yield to his naturally strong inclinations to transgress the holy law of God. He was shown the curse of God resting more and more heavily upon the human race, upon the cattle, and upon the earth, because of man’s continued transgression. He was shown that iniquity and violence would steadily increase; yet amid all the tide of human misery and woe, there would ever be a few would remain unsullied amid the prevailing moral degeneracy. Adam was made to comprehend what sin is–the transgression of the law. He was shown that moral, mental and physical degeneracy would result to the race, from transgression, until the world would be filled with human misery of every type.”
“The days of man were shortened by his own course of sin in transgressing the righteous law of God. The race was finally so greatly depreciated that they appeared inferior and almost valueless. There were generally incompetent to appreciate the mystery of Calvary, the grand and elevated facts of the atonement, and the plan of salvation, becaue of the indulgence of the carnal mind. Yet, notwithstanding the weakness, and enfeebled mental, moral and physical powers of the human race, Christ, true to the purpose for which He left heaven, continues His interest in the feeble, depreciated, degenerate specimens of humanity, and invites them to hide their weakness and great deficiencies in Him. If they come unto Him, He will supply all their needs.”
These two paragraphs present clear teaching that is not simply different from the ideas of evolution but, in fact, the exact opposite. White here presents in clear language what is so very foundational to Adventist belief. Contrary teaching is abundant in the world, but within our faith it represents a bold attack on the foundations of our faith – even if it is under the guise of “science”.
Charles Also Commented
Eugenie Scott’s Letter of Alarm – “Evolution Under Attack”
It appears that the text I placed here from this weeks SS lesson went away. Wonder why?
I think we are pretty much on the same page.
I agree with you as well. Nothing is more important today to us AS INDIVIDUALS than to have a personal relationship with our redeemer.
I appreciate yours posts.
Have no idea what you are talking about but being “tickled” (or at least happy) I guess, is a good thing.
Ya’ll have a good week.
Eugenie Scott’s Letter of Alarm – “Evolution Under Attack”
I don’t think I understand the point you are making in response to my point, Bill.
I have long understood that proclaiming the three angels messages was the primary mission of the SDA church – just as proclaiming a coming flood was the primary mission of Noah. Our church has chosen to represent themselves by the symbol of those three flying angels. Those three messages could be fairly summed as:
1) Acknowledge and worship the true Creator (including His Creatorship) as sovereign of the universe. This message clearly refers to the Sabbath commandment, as well. (v.7)
2) Clear exposure of the false systems of worship (including false ideas about our origins). (v.8)
3) Fair warning to the world of the impending judgement by God related to following the false systems. (v. 9-11)
Your point is well taken about v.12 not being an actual part of the core of the MESSAGE. That seems obvious. I have understood it to identify the people proclaiming the message – they have two important identifiers: (1) KEEP the commandments of God (including the 4th) AND (2) Have the testimony of Jesus.(salvation from our transgressions).
The rebel against God has multiple ways of attacking the truth – including:
* Teaching that we are each “a child of the universe” and that “as the trees and the stars, we have a RIGHT to be here…” – a position (supported by the ideas of evolution and “new age”) that there is no supreme God of the universe Who created everything, etc.
(countered by the 1st angels message).
* Teaching that Jesus nullified His law by dying on the cross – a position that actually supports the original contentions of Satan against the government of God.
(countered by the identification of “the saints” v.12)
* Teaching that we can each earn our own salvation by our works (as in “pennance”) – according to the Roman church. (countered by “the faith of Jesus” – v. 12)
As I understand them, the three angels messages are God’s final messages to a world that will perish – similarly as it did at the flood. There is an ark of safety to be found in those messages. God will put an end to the rebellion when it has fully matured. When will it be? Can it be much longer?
Making NO predictions, may I ask hypothetically: What if we KNEW for sure that it would be in 2012? What if we knew exactly the day? Would we be desperately warning everyone we care about? Or still having this conversation?
This (SDA) movement is more than 150 years old now. None of the “pioneers” would have thought it would go on for this long. How much longer will the Groom tary? Will our children grow up and have full careers? Is there any way that we as a “people” can hasten the great event? Surely it is clear that we have delayed it?
Honestly, at least for me, the discussions (or arguments) about “evolution” are pretty much irrelevant. Much of the world buys into this deception and the arguments are not changing anyone’s mind. My original interest here was in addressing the question: “Is evolution being taught in a Seventh-Day Adventist school.” IF the answer is “yes” – then – well, let’s just say that is a very sad answer. SDA true belief position on the matter is very clear. I am not here to argue with the world as to how we came to be here. I KNOW that in my heart, and surely there are a million websites where I could go to debate it. I really have no interest in the debate of evolution(any of its multiple forms) vs. literal creation.
Anyway: If there is something that I do not seem to understand concerning the three angels messages, then I am listening. Actually, they seem pretty clear to me after more than five decades of listening to them. And I know that any idea that counters a literal 6-day creation week a very few thousand years ago, is contrary to the most fundamental beliefs of true SDA people. AND that was/is the point I make.
Recent Comments by Charles
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
I read something today that seems relevant to these discussions. I am incredulous that we should be having a discussion within the SDA movment about evolution as having a role in our origions.
But teaching evolution as truth is not the only inroad that Satan has made into our church. In fact, there is little area to our core beliefs that has not been compromised.
Read what Ellen White wrote in GC 509: “Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world; it never converts the world to Christ. Familiarity with sin will inevitably cause it to appear less repulsive.”
Jesus is coming soon. Not only is there a great work to be done in taking the 3 angels messages to the world; there is a great preparation to be worked within each of our hearts individually.
La Sierra Univeristy Fires Dr. Lee Greer; Signs anti-Creation Bond
To love the historic truths embraced by the SDA church and to defend them is not “hate”.
The End of “Junk DNA”?
I have studied only elementary courses in science and thus much of what I read in the discussions on this thread are a bit over my head.
Still, I think I have come common sense and that is the tool that I have for drawing the conclusions that I hold.
The Bible describes a 2000 year old event in which the God/human man we know as “Jesus” raised Lazarus from the dead. The event, as described, set a scenario in which Lazarus clearly was dead and his body decomposing. Jesus, in a miraculous way, put “LIFE” back into that decomposing body.
Now either that account is a true event, or it is not. What do you choose to believe? Where is the empirical evidence that this could happen? If you believe the account is true, how do your scientific ideas reconcile to the story?
You can study the building blocks of living creatures / plants and observe much of how life is operating. But without that operational essence that is “LIFE”, those building blocks do not exist.
So Mr “Scientist”, please show me first how to take the elements in their raw forms and put LIFE into them. Then I can believe that you have an understanding of our origins. You are looking at living forms (dead or alive) and drawing conclusions about your observations without explaining the most fundamental cause of it all: How did it get started?
Please don’t make a claim: Demonstrate it. If you understand how it was done, show me. I will make the question even more simple: “What is life?”
“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10
“…should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
Now if you want to tell me that “God” was some brilliant scientist from another planet who created our beginnings in a laboratory, I will point back to the demonstration by Jesus of the raising of a dead man (Lazarus) after three days of decomposition. Jesus simply called him back to life. There was a reason that Jesus did this and the account of it in scripture makes that reason clear.
I choose to believe that most of our “reality” (including “life”) is beyond our comprehension. There is much about reality that God has reserved to Himself. If you think you can explain it, then you are buying into the lie told by the serpent, “you will become as God…”
Use the intelligence that God has given you to acknowledge your limitations and His role in our existence. Accept by FAITH those things that you cannot understand.
We have been given a few decades of life to live in the world we know and understand today. Empirical evidence available to us would suggest that when we die, that is the sum total and end of it. Of the billions of humans on earth, where is a person among us who has been risen from the dead?
If you have a hope that there is something beyond your death, then you must shed the notion that you can explain our origins as anything besides an unexplainable mystery that God does not share; except for the account of it that He left to us by His servant, Moses.
I choose to accept my limitations and I place my trust and faith in the word that God has left to us, to help us understand how we got here, why we are here, and how it all ends.
“Even so, come Lord Jesus.”
So do I understand correctly that your “faith” is subject to your scientific provabilities?
You have not yet addressed what I asked about demonstrating from whence comes “life”? Do you believe that life could exist apart from a miracle working God? Do you believe in miracles? Or do you believe that God is just a very brilliant scientist or magician? OR… is it all just a hoax to persuade us to (whatever)…
At what point do we acknowledge our limitations and that our observations can deceive us?
For what reason was the SDA church founded? Is that reason relative to the reason for its continued existence today?
The name of the church was carefully chosen to reflect the reason for its existence. The “Seventh-Day” refers to the holiness of the the seventh day of the week – in memorial of the literal seven day creation week. The “Adventist” part of the name proclaims that we believe that Jesus is coming again very soon in a very miraculous, splendid, and un-scientific way. BUT, the reason for the existence of this church is the proclamation of these things we believe to be true. It’s not just a club of folks who hold these “beliefs” – although it could sometime seem that way.
No, the seven days of creation were not vast periods of evolutionary development and the clouds of Heaven are not going to be space ships. But in all honesty, from viewing what you write, I would not know what to expect that you believe, relative to our existence and the advent of Jesus in the near future.
I speak in respect to you, with honesty.
I see truth, not as progressive, but absolute. Our perceptions about truth can be progressive or regressive.
Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but…..
Do you believe what you observe? Or do you believe the record that was provided by the Creator?
You claim to be a Seventh-Day Adventist, it seems. I wonder, just what is it about the SDA faith (it seems inapproprate to me to label it as a “tradition”) that, for you, distinguishes it from other “religions”? What is the compelling doctrine or belief that drives you to choose this faith over the abundance of others that are in the world?
Again, with all due respect, I honestly wonder.
An apology to PUC
So far the only substantive responses by PUC defenders have been empty sarcasm and ridicule. Unfortunately, 18-year-old students eat that sort of thing up and follow anyone who has mastered tactics that mirror their favorite media characters. Educate Truth isn’t going after anyone. It is simply laying out the evidence and presentations for all to see and assess for themselves. Educate Truth doesn’t have to point out the dishonesty and the underlying problem that balanced views in science are not being respectfully presented on Adventist college campuses.