Comment on An apology to PUC by Johnny Vance.
Thank you for your response. I suppose I’m a bit confused by your denunciation of Educate Truth whilst saying that professors shouldn’t undermine SDA beliefs. From what I’ve seen, Educate Truth has focused on the evidence presented from the video and has refused to go beyond that. As for Matthew 18, isn’t that referring to private sins? Did Ellen White make a mistake and break Matthew 18 when she publicly appealed for parents to NOT send their children to Battle Creek?
Educate Truth is not blogging about private sins of individual members. It’s addressing public positions taken in a public forum. Many people have tried for years to address the problems in our schools behind closed doors, including many young students. They’ve been ignored. At what point do we STOP keeping the church laity in the dark about the going-ons in our schools? Are you advocating continuing the same fruitless efforts as before? Our institutions MUST be transparent.
I’d also have to disagree with you on another key point: equating the criticism of an individual’s stance–an individual who represents the Adventist church–with the condemnation of the person. If the Bible clearly says that exhibit A is wrong, and that exhibit B is the way to go, it doesn’t mean you don’t love the person when you point them back to scripture’s declaration. If the church can’t have this discussion then nothing will get done. The church public needs to know what’s going on, because, after all, it is their children they are entrusting to our institutions, funded to a large part by their money. It’s only fair.
Now, if individuals and whole institutions in our church refuse to correct themselves–as is the case–then inevitably their refusal to disassociate themselves from their errors will obligate us to address the issue with their names attached. Hence we have Dr. Ness and PUC brought into the spotlight along with Adventist education in general.
I will venture to guess that maybe a few people from the Union, NAD and GC have commented on here under a pseudonym for obvious political reasons. Note as well that none has openly declared an opposition to the work of Educate Truth. My question to you is still this: how do you propose we handle the situation? (Matthew 18 is not addressing an institutional problem). Hiding it from the public is not the way to go. Closed-doors diplomacy has failed. Public scrutiny seems to be the only catalyst to true reform, because now there’s no denying the nature of the beast.
Johnny Vance Also Commented
An apology to PUC
@OTNT and BobRyan: Thank you for the clarification. I see where this argument is going. We will always have opportunities and hooks to hang our doubts on. I suppose you can dig for hooks and hang all the doubts you want on them. It seems like OTNT is focusing on the cup being half-empty argument.
“Have faith in the LORD your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful.” 2 Chronicles 20:20
An apology to PUC
@OTNT_Believer: I’m just curious. What was wrong/mistaken about her visions of the planets?
Johnny Vance, I appreciated your examples of rebuke from John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, and Ellen White. Youâ€™re in mighty good company. Who am I to put Matthew 18 in your way? Feel entitled to rebuke anyone you wish. (Quote)
Oh dear. It’s a pyrrhic victory indeed to prove the point but still not gain the heart. I regret that much.
Recent Comments by Johnny Vance
Two Adventist Universities Promote Six-Day Creation
@PUC Student: As a recent graduate of PUC, I strongly disagree with your assertion. Please provide proof to the contrary. If there’s nothing to hide, then providing it in any form should not be a problem 😉
Back to Square One…
On the issue of Harvard’s accreditation: I stand corrected! My apologies for my incomplete understanding of the matter…
Back to Square One…
I don’t understand why our educational institutions have ignored counsels from the Spirit of Prophecy. We are clearly told to NOT seek secular accreditation. Why do we care about WASC? Do we lack in faith to believe that God will uphold the credibility of His institutions?
Let all be reminded that Ivy league schools like Harvard DO NOT have accreditation. Their reputation precedes them. The Lord can do the same for His.
WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
At what point do we stop casting pearls to the pigs? I’m getting weary of this controversy.
Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
@ Johnny VanceSo, YOU claim to be able to judge from the many student comments their philosophy and spirituality? And YOU can decipher, whilst I cannot, that the vast majority were â€œpostmodernâ€ and â€œlacking in spirituality?â€ And I can be deceived while YOU cannot?When you choose to believe the very few, Johnny, you reveal your obvious and very selective bias. You can cherry-pick as well as anyone here. And youâ€™ve proven your arrogance. (Quote)
I’m not offended by Sean’s assertions about faith and evidence. I’m with Sean to a large extent (as far as I can tell). God gives us evidence to believe and back up His word, although there will be some things we’ll just have to take by faith until it’s made clear to our minds (maybe in Heaven?). But don’t try to use me as a pawn in your dislike of Sean.
You also neglect to note that in the great controversy between good and evil, the majority does not constitute the right side, unfortunately. Only 8 chose to enter the ark. Only a minority believed in Christ. Only a minority will resist the popular waves of anti-biblical worship. I can say that your judgment of students’ comments and Dr. Ness’s video are wrong, but how dare I say that you are wrong? I don’t believe it’s arrogant to say you are wrong. I’m not insulting you as you are insulting me. If we’re having an honest and open dialogue about the situation, then you should be able to AT LEAST take back what you dish out without threatening to leave the church because some of us dare to say you are wrong, or this and that is wrong. Don’t try to blackmail people for stating their mind.
I really wonder if you read the same Bible and the same Testimonies to the Church that I read, because I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can come up with such drastically opposed conclusions. I just state the former because you claim to believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and I am truly perplexed by your conclusion.