Eddie asked: “Should every church member sign an oath affirming …

Comment on The ANN Highlights LSU’s Dr. Lee Grismer – An Evolutionary Biologist by Faith.

Eddie asked: “Should every church member sign an oath affirming their acceptance of all 28 fundamental beliefs? If so, what happens if they change their mind? Should the oath be signed every year?”

The answer to that is basically Yes…it is called the Baptismal vow all SDAs take. I know it would be lovely to have everyone saved, but that is not the reality. This is serious stuff. You only get one lifetime to figure it all out and sometimes that is cut short, courtesy of the devil.

Here’s what I see happening in our church: We have become a people that worship ourselves and our own opinions. Thus people have come to believe that they can shape the church to their way of thinking instead of realizing that the church is established by God and that He makes the rules. Where our choice lies is in the fact that we can choose whether or not to accept these beliefs and follow God by joining His church. If you really think about it, it is the height of gall to think that we can tell God what to do in His own church.

I know it seems harsh, but the fact is that even one cherished sin can keep you out of the Kingdom. Even one. And there is a good reason for this. If the line is not drawn there, then where? Do you think, Eddie, that it would be acceptable to allow 1 sin each as a criterium for heaven? No? Why not? Because then sin is not erradicated from the universe as God has promised it would be. Then Heaven would not be Heaven.

In a small way, the earthly church is in a similar situation. If we allow people into the church who refuse to believe as we do, do you think they will keep silent? Uh-uh. They will infect others with their error. Do you think their presence will cause harmony or disunion? What is happening now with our church–why it is in such disarray–is a perfect example of the results of not holding the line.

Jesus prayed that we should all be one. Is that happening in our church today–no. Some say one thing, some say another. So you think it is harsh to disfellowship these people who refuse to “come into line” as the angel in Ellen’s vision commanded? How so? Don’t forget it is their choice. The church has its doctrines laid out for all to study. God established these doctrines. We have the choice to accept or reject them. But if we reject them we make ourselves unfit to commune with God’s people.

If these people change their minds and want to return to the church no one is stopping them. In fact we would welcome them and rejoice in their decision.

And please don’t try to villify the church or the members who are calling for this solution to our problem. It is the only viable solution there is, which is why God made provision for it in the first place. Study the book of Exodus and see how God handled the rebellion of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. God did that, not because He is a harsh judge, but because He saw that He had to sacrifice the rebellious ones to save the rest of the congregation.

What is happening in our church today is much the same. It is a widespread rebellion against God and His word. If you (the generic you)don’t believe in God as your Creator, you don’t believe His word. And if you don’t believe His word, what are you doing in His church to begin with? What could you possibly want with such a fellowship? The basis of all Christianity is to be a disciple of Christ…that is what Christians are supposed to be. If you don’t believe in Him or His word, you cannot be a Christian.

The church is not just a social club. Joining God’s church is a serious life-and-death decision…actually an eternal-life-and-eternal-death decision. God has a right to expect that the members of His church believe in His doctrines. And when we get to the bottom line, when He comes to take His children home, they will all be the ones who are in harmony with Him, no ifs, ands, or buts, else there would be no harmony in Heaven.

Faith Also Commented

The ANN Highlights LSU’s Dr. Lee Grismer – An Evolutionary Biologist
Shane said:

“These biologists at LSU assassinated their own character by remaining at an institution they were undermining. They were being dishonest and essentially stealing from parents who thought their kids were receiving an Adventist education. They robbed us, and the administration is party to it.

Your ludicrous accusations are the equivalent to blaming the shopper who identified a store employee slipping cash into their pocket from the register for all the problems the employee is going through.”

Sorry, Prof Kent, but I totally agree with Shane. This website has done an invaluable service to the church by letting the members know what is going on in our church-sponsored institutions. Something we all have every right to know. Shane and Sean did not make this situation, they merely reported it. This situation has been going on for 25-30 years now and Educate Truth has not been around for more than a couple of years to the best of my knowledge. So how could this site possibly be responsible for any of this? It’s entirely illogical.

My guess is that any Professor who wants to teach truth is avoiding LSU (and perhaps other like institutions) because they know that the faculty is corrupt, the program is corrupt, and those who try to do the right thing are often persecuted for their efforts.

You may have noticed I am anxious for action on this rather than just rhetoric.

I sincerely thank Educate Truth for dragging this stinking carcass out into the open so it can be dealt with for once and for all. I pray someone who has the courage will do this very soon to stop the bleed.

The ANN Highlights LSU’s Dr. Lee Grismer – An Evolutionary Biologist
Prof Kent:

How do you figure that this site keeps biology profs with integrity out of LSU? Any professor that is following the Bible, supporting creation, and the SDA church has nothing to hide and nothing to fear.

When you say “quality” applicants, just how do you judge their credentials?

As far as I am concerned, it is far more important that these professors have a firm grasp on the teachings of creation and the teachings of the Bible than any credentials the world can offer. If that had been the criteria used as a guideline for hiring, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. And that goes for all our SDA institutions.

The ANN Highlights LSU’s Dr. Lee Grismer – An Evolutionary Biologist
Eddie said:
Faith, I just dug up my certificate of baptism from the 1970s and on the back it lists only 13 “baptismal vows.” Not one mentions a belief in a literal six-day creation week only 6000 years ago. In fact, none of the vows even mentions belief in a creator!

I beg to differ with you, Eddie.

Let’s look at #5 and #6–

5. I believe that the Bible is God’s inspired Word, and that it constitutes the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian.

6. Loving the Lord with all my heart, it is my purpose, by the power of the indwelling Christ, to keep God’s law of Ten Commandments, including the fourth, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord.

I realize that in this present day of doubt and unbelief some people may think I am being nit-picky here, but I believe the Bible–the whole Bible–beginning with Genesis 1:1. Evolution in any of its ugly forms refutes the Bible as a collection of fairytales at best, and lies at worst.
Therefore, to believe in evolution is to reject the Bible as the Truth.

The Sabbath is based on the fact that God rested on the 7th day (from Creation, remember) and hallowed it for a memorial of Creation forever. If you believe in evolution that is all out the window. Yet–and this is extremely important–the Sabbath is the dividing line between the saved and the lost. Because by keeping the Sabbath we acknowledge the Lord as our Creator.

So you see, Eddie, those two precepts are violated when the member begins to believe in Evolution as the truth. So, yes, the member then has broken his vows.

I am not saying that we should bar people from attending church if they are quietly and agreeably behaving themselves, whether or not they are members. However, we are told that those that break their vows are to be disfellowshiped–their names removed from the books.

I can’t see why this is such a big deal. Think about it. Having your name removed from the earthly books is nothing compared to what is happening in the heavenly books. You can tap dance around this issue all you want, but you aren’t fooling God with all your fancy stepping. He is the one that ultimately makes the decision as to who is and who is not His.

Anyone who openly believes in evolution brings disgrace upon God. They are ultimately saying, “God didn’t mean what He said in His Holy Word (that He miraculously preserved all these years, by the way). Its a fairytale and not to be taken seriously. We now know (courtesy of a non-Christian man’s total imagination) that God’s story is all a myth and anyone who believes it is just plain uneducated.”

Does that sound like loyalty to God? God says if you (the generic you) don’t acknowledge Him here on earth, He won’t acknowledge you before His Father in Heaven.

Kind of serious stuff, don’t you think?

Personally, I take great joy in acknowledging God as my Creator and I don’t care a fig if that makes me look like an uneducated moron to the world. The world isn’t my guideline at all. And I am sorry for anyone who even considers what the world says as more important than what God says. That is what evolutionists are doing. All their attempts at trying to marry truth and error will not avail them of salvation. And all their education isn’t going to save them in the end, either.

Recent Comments by Faith

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Mr Taylor,

After reading your comment above, I must say PK isn’t the only one in that boat.I would make some comment as to how I really feel about you, but I know Sean will only delete it and you won’t benefit from my insight anyway–seeing as Sean is more concerned about other people’s feelings than you seem to be.

How you have the nerve to come to this website and call us all a bunch of morons (which is really what you are doing) is beyond me. You and your cronies are the ones drowning in error. Anyone who dares to accept man’s opinions over the Bible or SOP isn’t to be trusted to define truth for anyone.

Too straight-forward in my comment? Trust me, I have restrained myself admirably. If you only knew….

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Further to my comment on skeptism and our professors, I’ve got to tell you that I found Prof Kent to be extremely annoying in his comments on EGW. He seems to think that she is an embarrassment to the church when she speaks on Science.

Personally I find people who dis her to be the embarrassment to the church. I really don’t see how they dare to contradict and mock God’s prophet. By doing this they undermine a lot of our church’s beliefs to outsiders as well as church members. God will hold them accountable for that.

Furthermore, David’s unpublished manuscript plus other books I have read on archaeology have reported skeletons of the type that EGW mentions. Also found were artifacts such as huge iron bedsteads made for and buried with kings of huge stature.

Just because you haven’t done your research, PK, don’t jump to the conclusion the evidence isn’t there. It’s there, all right, and you make yourself look a little foolish for not knowing about it.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
David Read said:

“Ellen White’s statements about larger antediluvian life forms are well attested with regard to many different types of flora and fauna. They’re not even controversial…

Hi David,

As you know, I took advantage of your kind offer and I read your manuscript as well as I purchased 3 of your books, one for me, one for my sisters, and one for the church library. It took me a week to finish the book, and I and my sisters are very impressed with it. My one sister calls it “one incredible book”. It has answered a lot of the questions we had on the subject of evolution vs creation science, and, yes, I believe we (you and I and my sisters) are on the same page in our beliefs. We have immensely enjoyed discussing the various aspects of the subject as we read. It makes perfect sense to us.

I still have a couple of questions–new ones will probably always keep popping up–but I would say you have covered the subject admirably. Thanks so much for this book.

I agree with Elder Wilson, this is something every Adventist should read. In my opinion it should be used as required reading for science courses. It is exactly the way I would want science courses in the universities to treat the Creation/evolution debate in the classroom. And if the professors at LSU and the other SDA institutions would do this we wouldn’t be constantly losing our young people and, for that matter, our professors, to skeptisism.

Thank God someone has the courage to publish the truth and expose error.

God Bless you, David.

Southern Adventist University opens Origins Exhibit
Hi Sean and Bill,

I am wondering if the difference of opinion here is due to varying definitions of the word ‘science’. As we all know there is true science and there is worldly psuedo-science.

If Bill’s understanding of ‘science’ in this case is actually worldly psuedo-science, then he is correct in not wanting any truth to be compromised with it.

From Sean’s post, I believe he is referring to true science, which is definitely part of our beliefs on origins and is well supported by the Bible and SOP, as Sean admirably demonstrated.

Not having seen the exhibit myself, I cannot comment on whether or not they are mixing psuedo-science into it. (Perhaps a few of you posters out there can see the exhibit and report back to us.) Knowing the general philosophy of SAU, I would be surprised if they did.

Their goal is “to provide scientific evidence that substantiates the Bible’s account of creation.” Sounds good to me.
They also say: “Religion and science don’t need to be at odds.” And that is true when you are referring to true science, which I believe they are.

However, I do understand Bill’s reaction in that these days when people use the word ‘science’ without qualification it so often means evolutionary pseudoscience, that we tend to be suspicious.

I think, Bill, that in this case we don’t need to worry. I believe SAU’s heart is in the right place and I am so glad that at least one of our institutions is willing to stand up and be counted on the side of Creation, even though they will probably draw much criticism from the ‘scientific’ community as well as from the TEs in their own church.

God bless them for their fidelity to Him. And may God strengthen them to meet the onslaught that is most likely to follow, is my prayer for them.