@Carl: “Yet again, the human artifacts found in the Cosquer …

Comment on EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN by Sean Pitman.

@Carl:

“Yet again, the human artifacts found in the Cosquer Grotto are post-Flood. They aren’t as old as mainstream scientists assume because mainstream scientists date these artifacts according to a mistaken radiocarbon dating assumptions.” – Sean Pitman

I cannot follow your logic. Post Flood?? The only entrance to the cave is about 100 feet under water. When, after the Flood, has the level of the Mediterranean Sea been 100 feet below its present level? The animal drawings in the cave show extinct creatures.

I’ve already gone over this with you. It would be nice if you could at least remember these previous discussion and mention the arguments already made and respond to these instead of repeating your same old arguments over and over again as if they were never addressed…

Yet again, the Mediterranean did in fact empty and dry out after the Flood – only to be suddenly filled in again once the first ice age ended and the sea levels increased and burst through, filling the basin in less than 2 years time.

A new model suggests that at the flood’s peak water poured from the Atlantic into the Mediterranean basin at a rate one thousand times the flow of the Amazon River, according to calculations published in the Dec. 10 issue of Nature.

“In an instantaneous flash, the dry Mediterranean became a normal Mediterranean like we see it today,” says lead author Daniel Garcia-Castellanos of Spain’s Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Cientificas (CSIC) in Barcelona.

Although the Nature article claims that this flood took place a few million years ago during the Tertiary time, in reality it took place after Noah’s Flood just a few thousand years ago.

Many of the animals depicted in these cave drawings and paintings are indeed extinct, but these are post-Flood animals none-the-less. Many post-flood animals went extinct, such as the Whooly Mammoths and Giant Sloths, etc. I really don’t understand the point of your argument here.

Really, your entire argument is based on radiomentric dating assumptions, especially radiocarbon dating assumptions in this particular case…

Have you talked lately to Ariel Roth for instance?

Sure, I’m good friends with Ariel. We talk and E-mail all the time.

I have read Ariel Roth and know him to be a skillful apologist and careful scientist. I have never seen or heard about anything in his work as fanciful as your claims.

Then you must not have read very much of his work. He strongly argues for a short time for life on this planet and provides abundant evidence for the same. How you could have missed such arguments having read much of anything that he has written is quite amazing since this is the main thrust of his books and even his life…

I suggest you write him a personal E-mail and see if what I have said is not so… in his opinion…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:

Um, I think the evolutionists are the ones who informed us about ice ages.

You’re mistaken. Evolutionists were not the first ones to propose ice age theories – theories which were around well before Darwin published Origins in 1859.

For example, Andrew Ure (1778-1857) was one of the top chemists of his day with an international reputation as a meticulous scientist, a prolific writer and an effective teacher. But he was also one of those brilliantly versatile men of science in the early 19th century. In 1829 he published A New System of Geology in which he proposed some new theoretical ideas for the reconstruction of earth history, one of which was one of the earliest conceptions of an ice age, which he speculated would have resulted from the Flood. One of the author’s he quoted was Jens Esmark (1763-1839)

Jens Esmark also argued a sequence of worldwide ice ages well before Darwin. In a paper published in 1824, Esmark proposed changes in climate as the cause of those glaciations. He attempted to show that they originated from changes in the Earth’s orbit. Adding to Esmark’s work, Bernhardi, in a 1932 paper, speculated about former polar ice caps reaching as far as the temperate zones around the globe.

http://creation.com/british-scriptural-geologists-in-the-first-half-of-the-nineteenth-century-part-4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Esmark

They have given us more information about ice ages than creationists have and nothing, I repeat nothing, is going to change that. They have no problem with ice ages whatsoever.

They have no problem with ice ages, true. But, they do have a definite problem with the idea of very rapid, even catastrophically sudden, formation and regression. It wasn’t until just a few years ago that scientists began to realize that glacial melts can happen many times more rapidly than they tought possible just 10 years ago – to include the melting of Greenland’s ice-cap as well as the Antarctic ice. No one thought that such rapid melting could ever happen as rapidly as it is taking place today.

www.DetectingDesign.com/AncientIce.html

What is it with Adventists suddenly talking a lot about Las Vegas, card games, houses of cards, gambling and betting? I’m bewildered.

It is often a very good way to get important statistical concepts across to those people who don’t usually deal with numbers and the scientific usefulness of statistical odds analysis… like you ; )

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:

So…ice ages are scientifically impossible and therefore could only result from a global supernatural flood. The arctic seas became hot which caused very high precipitation. Then an extreme cold spell came along that made an iceberg out of high elevations and high altitudes, decreased the ocean sea level and dried out the Mediterranean basin. I assume these explanations fit within the 1000 gsaar threshold (geologically supportable argumentative age reasoning) of explanatory complexity

Ice ages are not scientifically impossible. They are certainly consistent with a global catastrophe that involved massive volcanic activity. And, massive meteor impacts may indeed have provided the sudden release of the huge quantities of energy needed to produce the initial catastrophe on a global scale. Also, it is well-known that ice ages would indeed reduce ocean levels quite dramatically – easily below the level needed to maintain water in the Mediterranean basin (which is known to have been dry during the last major ice age).

I fail to see what it is about this scenario that you find so “complex” and unbelievable given the starting premise of a sudden massive release of energy on this planet?… What would you expect to happen? Orderly weather as usual? The whole surface of the planet was broken up by the massive impact that set the whole catastrophe in motion… the aftershocks of which we are still feeling to this day.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:

So did the mammoths dies of cold or starvation? Maybe it wasn’t the intolerable cold, perhaps it was too much snowfall that spoiled access to the vegetation they depended on. Unless most or all of the fossils had identifiable food in their mouths or stomachs (I have heard that some did), how could one possibly know?

It really doesn’t matter if they died directly because of the cold or indirectly because of starvation (though I favor the former idea). Either way, the evidence suggests that they, along with millions of other types of animals, died out very suddenly in line with a sudden global cold snap. That’s the key point here. The cold snap would result in a rapid decrease in the ocean’s water level, resulting in an opportunity to dry out the Mediterranean basin…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


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