Comment on EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN by Sean Pitman.
@Carl:
Note to Sean: When you respond, please point me to a short-history model that can be scientifically tested. You already know the list of events that it must explain in sequence, but you have never addressed that point. Simply saying that things can happen faster than the standard model claims is not sufficient.
Sure it is. The sequence of events is the same. The only difference is the time between the events – it isn’t nearly as much time as mainstream models require. The sequence of events took place very very rapidly…
For example, you need to explain the Cosquer Grotto with all of its human artifacts and artwork.
We’ve already gone over all of this a few times now. I don’t know why you keep repeating yourself without addressing my previous responses to you on your “evidences”.
Yet again, the human artifacts found in the Cosquer Grotto are post-Flood. They aren’t as old as mainstream scientists assume because mainstream scientists date these artifacts according to a mistaken radiocarbon dating assumptions – assumptions that assume a uniform ratio of C14 vs. C12 in the atmosphere. This assumption is mistaken because this ratio was dramatically affected by the Flood, during which time massive amounts of C12 were buried in the form of coal, oil, and calcium carbonate.
Then, tropical fossils and dinosaur fossils in Antarctica.
Why is this a problem? The world before the Flood did not have extremes in temperature, but was much more uniformly warm and verdant than it is today.
On a global scale, please explain the sequence of meteor impacts – just the big ones: Kara-Kul, Popigai, Chesapeake, Chicxulub, Kara, Manicouagan, Wilkes Land, Woodleigh, Acraman, Duluth Complex, Sudbury, Czech Basin, Vredefort, Stillwater Complex.
Again, the sequence is the same. Just the timing is different…
Whey you present a short-history model to explain these things, I also would like to know why the GRI people state that we don’t have a short-history model. Do you have a model that they don’t know about?
It depends on who you ask at the GRI. As with most mainstream scientists, not everyone at GRI recognizes the evidence for what seems to be much more obvious to me. However, there are those at GRI that do think much more like I do… to include former leaders of GRI. Have you talked lately to Ariel Roth for instance?
Does this mean that all questions have been clearly answered in my mind? Of course not. There are many unanswered questions. However, the weight of evidence, as I see it anyway, is clearly in favor of a recent creation of life on this planet as well as a recent world-wide watery catastrophe that formed much of the geologic column and fossil record in short order.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman Also Commented
EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:
Um, I think the evolutionists are the ones who informed us about ice ages.
You’re mistaken. Evolutionists were not the first ones to propose ice age theories – theories which were around well before Darwin published Origins in 1859.
For example, Andrew Ure (1778-1857) was one of the top chemists of his day with an international reputation as a meticulous scientist, a prolific writer and an effective teacher. But he was also one of those brilliantly versatile men of science in the early 19th century. In 1829 he published A New System of Geology in which he proposed some new theoretical ideas for the reconstruction of earth history, one of which was one of the earliest conceptions of an ice age, which he speculated would have resulted from the Flood. One of the author’s he quoted was Jens Esmark (1763-1839)
Jens Esmark also argued a sequence of worldwide ice ages well before Darwin. In a paper published in 1824, Esmark proposed changes in climate as the cause of those glaciations. He attempted to show that they originated from changes in the Earth’s orbit. Adding to Esmark’s work, Bernhardi, in a 1932 paper, speculated about former polar ice caps reaching as far as the temperate zones around the globe.
http://creation.com/british-scriptural-geologists-in-the-first-half-of-the-nineteenth-century-part-4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Esmark
They have given us more information about ice ages than creationists have and nothing, I repeat nothing, is going to change that. They have no problem with ice ages whatsoever.
They have no problem with ice ages, true. But, they do have a definite problem with the idea of very rapid, even catastrophically sudden, formation and regression. It wasn’t until just a few years ago that scientists began to realize that glacial melts can happen many times more rapidly than they tought possible just 10 years ago – to include the melting of Greenland’s ice-cap as well as the Antarctic ice. No one thought that such rapid melting could ever happen as rapidly as it is taking place today.
www.DetectingDesign.com/AncientIce.html
What is it with Adventists suddenly talking a lot about Las Vegas, card games, houses of cards, gambling and betting? I’m bewildered.
It is often a very good way to get important statistical concepts across to those people who don’t usually deal with numbers and the scientific usefulness of statistical odds analysis… like you ; )
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:
So…ice ages are scientifically impossible and therefore could only result from a global supernatural flood. The arctic seas became hot which caused very high precipitation. Then an extreme cold spell came along that made an iceberg out of high elevations and high altitudes, decreased the ocean sea level and dried out the Mediterranean basin. I assume these explanations fit within the 1000 gsaar threshold (geologically supportable argumentative age reasoning) of explanatory complexity
Ice ages are not scientifically impossible. They are certainly consistent with a global catastrophe that involved massive volcanic activity. And, massive meteor impacts may indeed have provided the sudden release of the huge quantities of energy needed to produce the initial catastrophe on a global scale. Also, it is well-known that ice ages would indeed reduce ocean levels quite dramatically – easily below the level needed to maintain water in the Mediterranean basin (which is known to have been dry during the last major ice age).
I fail to see what it is about this scenario that you find so “complex” and unbelievable given the starting premise of a sudden massive release of energy on this planet?… What would you expect to happen? Orderly weather as usual? The whole surface of the planet was broken up by the massive impact that set the whole catastrophe in motion… the aftershocks of which we are still feeling to this day.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
EducateTruth.com promoted on 3ABN
@Geanna Dane:
So did the mammoths dies of cold or starvation? Maybe it wasn’t the intolerable cold, perhaps it was too much snowfall that spoiled access to the vegetation they depended on. Unless most or all of the fossils had identifiable food in their mouths or stomachs (I have heard that some did), how could one possibly know?
It really doesn’t matter if they died directly because of the cold or indirectly because of starvation (though I favor the former idea). Either way, the evidence suggests that they, along with millions of other types of animals, died out very suddenly in line with a sudden global cold snap. That’s the key point here. The cold snap would result in a rapid decrease in the ocean’s water level, resulting in an opportunity to dry out the Mediterranean basin…
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
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