Comment on Dr. Jason Rosenhouse “Among the Creationists” by Sean Pitman.
How can you describe my arguments about the designed nature of something like a highly symmetrical polished granite cube as “woolly”? – especially considering your own argument that such a cube is in fact a “blindingly obvious” artifact of deliberate design? – even if found on an alien planet like Mars?
Paul Cameron wrote:
That this [granite cube] is an artefact and that it was made by a life form and not [by] magic is so blindingly obvious that to state it would be an insult to the review panel. (Link)
The problems is that like monty python you confuse categories. You argue from an obvious artefact to suggest that anything that appears designed for a purpose must have a divine creator… You are arguing that a molecular “machine” is precisely the same as an artefact and therefore must accept the same implications of design. That is not at all established…
You make no distinction between a molecular machine and a physical machine or an artefact. If we take [your] logic to its extreme it is completely reductionist. Biology is just mechanics. This is certainly consistent with your incredulity about emergent properties.
(Link)
So, we obviously agree about the origin of the granite cube. The granite cube, as you yourself argue, is a blindly obvious artefact of intelligent design (or “creative intelligence” if you prefer) – regardless of if God or some other intelligent designer did the job. It really doesn’t matter as far as the basic detection of design is concerned.
As far as the rest of your basic argument is concerned, pleased do explain it to me a bit more. Are you really suggesting here that a molecular machine, built of amino acid parts as basic building blocks, is not really a “physical machine”? – that a rotary flagellar motility system is something more than “just mechanics”? Are you suggesting here that humans cannot possibly build such a biological machine? – because there’s something mystical or magical about such machines? something that makes them “emergent” when “physical machines” that humans build are somehow less than “emergent”? What is your definition of “emergence” such that human-designed machines (like jet engines for example) are not emergent? – while equivalent biological machines somehow are?
As far as your argument for design based on “modest complexity, found out of context”, this is exactly what I’m proposing – a signal coming from an biological environment from which neither it nor anything like it is either expected or observed by any known mindless natural mechanism. That is why SETI scientists claim that anything from a very simple sinusoidal radio signal whistle to a radio signal carrying a complex mathematical sequence would be “blindingly obvious artefacts” – the products of intelligent design. Again, no one is proposing a “supernatural biochemist” at this point. What is being proposed, at minimum, is an intelligent biochemist with a level of intelligence no less than that needed to explain SETI radio signals.
The SETI conclusion that certain types of radio signals are “artefacts” is rational because mindless natural processes are not currently known which can produce the types of signals that SETI scientists are looking for, while still being within the realm of what intelligent designers (i.e., humans) are capable of producing. Exactly the same thing is true for why you claim that a highly symmetrical granite cube is a “blindingly obvious artefact” of creative intelligence. And, given that no known mindless mechanism is capable of producing certain types of sequences in DNA or certain types of biological machines, the very same thing would be true for these features as well – since these machines are very much like machines that humans do in fact create.
For example, you didn’t respond to my earlier illustration of you finding a DNA sequence in a virus that showed a Morse Code pattern that read, “Hi Dr. Cameron. Just checking to see if you’re paying attention. All the best. – God”
Don’t tell me that you wouldn’t recognize such a coded sequence, even if coded within a sequence of DNA, as a true artefact of intelligent design (the same as if it came in a radio signal) – even though you’d most likely not consider God as the source of such a sequence. You’d probably think that one of your lab partners is trying to play a trick on you. However, you’d not think, not for a minute, that such a sequence might be the result of some “natural” mindless mechanism.
Why then do you argue that something like a rotary bacterial flagellum is somehow less clearly an artefact of creative intelligence? – given that the Darwinian mechanism cannot explain it? Because, you’re not a “reductionist”? That’s your reason?
Sean Pitman Also Commented
Dr. Jason Rosenhouse “Among the Creationists”
I have no fear, thanks to God and His mercy, and no one is free of bias – not even you. You’ve simply traded one religion for another. It is still possible that your current bias blinds you to what would otherwise be obvious.
Dr. Jason Rosenhouse “Among the Creationists”
No, I think science would have discredited them if their ideas were not supported by observation and experimentation.
Exactly, so why not at least try to do the same for my ideas, which are quite easily falsifiable?
I know, you can’t do it yourself, but you’re quite sure that if I publish my ideas in a mainstream science journal that someone out there will know how to shoot my theory all to shreds. Right? This sounds like a no-brainer! Why not just published my ideas and test them against the big boys? It must be that I’m afraid to get shot down! and that’s why I don’t publish… Don’t you think?
I guess that’s why I went on live radio to debate Jason Rosenhouse? – because I was afraid that he’d show me how silly my ideas are on public radio? – how the Darwinian mechanism is so clearly capable of creating all kinds of things regardless of their level of functional complexity? If I was so afraid of getting smashed to pieces by some of these Darwinian big shots, why take such public risks? – even in their own blogs and public forums? Why not just hide out in my own little ghetto?
Come on now. You have to know that I’d love to be able to publish my ideas on the statistical limits to the Darwinian mechanism in a science journal like Nature or Science or any mainstream science journal. I really would. The problem, as I’ve already explained, is that no one is going to publish, in any mainstream science journal, any argument for intelligent design or creative intelligence (even if the intelligence were a “natural” intelligence like some kind of intelligent alien life form) as the origin of various kinds of biological machines. It just doesn’t happen these days without someone getting fired over it. So, the next best thing is to take the argument directly to them and challenge them in their own blogs, on the radio, and on television, etc. There’s nothing else I can do. My hands are tied.
In any case, do let me know when you’re willing to reasonably define what it would take for you to recognize a phenomenon as a true “miracle” or when you’re able to present something, anything, that explains how the Darwinian mechanism of RM/NS can actually work beyond very low level of functional complexity.
Until then, what are you really contributing here? What are you trying to say? – that you don’t know but someone else probably does? That you’re skeptical about everything and nothing could possibly convince you of the existence of God or any other designer of life? – not even if you were to personally witness some of the most fantastic miracles described in the Bible? Good luck with that… but you’re just fooling yourself in your efforts never to be tricked by anything. You’re missing out on a great deal that life has to offer.
Still, I wish you all the best.
Dr. Jason Rosenhouse “Among the Creationists”
All the best to you… yet again 😉
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