As you yourself put it, “science is not at all …

Comment on What does it take to be a true Seventh-day Adventist? by Sean Pitman.

As you yourself put it, “science is not at all in conflict with the idea that the original Designer and Creator of all living things could easily” engineer these remarkable beings and feats, which you have gleefully ridiculed on multiple occasions. Nor is science at all in conflict with the idea that these could be supreme beings in addition to God himself. After all, there is no science to show that these entities and feats do not exist.

So, outside of wishful thinking, is there a way to rationally determine, empirically, if God likely exists vs. Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? If not, a choice to have faith in God (or the Bible that talks about God) really isn’t faith. It’s wishful thinking…

Science is based on hypotheses that are testable in a potentially falsifiable manner. How then can any hypothesis that any one of these fantastic beings exists be rationally or empirically tested? How can any useful predictive value be established?

Well, one would have to propose a hypothesis that could be tested and potentially falsified where only the entity in question, or something indistinguishable from such, could actually produce the phenomenon in question. You could call it the God-only hypothesis or the Santa-only hypothesis, etc. In other words, what would it take to convince you that God or Santa or the Flying Spaghetti Monster really does exist? – outside of wishful thinking that is?

And yes, there are potential evidences that would convince even the most hardened scientists that a God or God-like being does in fact exist – if such evidences could actually be produced (given that the scientists in question are honest seekers for truth). If not, what you have is a blind faith that is in fact equivalent to wishful thinking. If God had not provided us with any more evidence of Himself than that which exists for Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then He could not, in any seriousness, expect rational people to believe or have faith in Him, His existence, His love, or the validity of the Bible – vs. any other fairytale story. What separates the Biblical accounts of the existence and acts of God from other fairytale accounts must be evidence – empirically verifiable evidence.

If such evidences could be demonstrated, it would no longer be irrational, or contrary to scientific forms of thinking, to conclude that the claims associated with the sources of such evidences for the existence and activity of God in human history are actually credible.

Again, it all has to do with the degree of demonstrated credibility of the source of various fantastic claims… which can be determined in a scientific manner – via the weight of evidence regarding those elements that can be empirically tested.

In short, without a basis in the weight of evidence, there is no faith beyond wishful thinking. Faith and evidence walk hand in hand. Faith does not exist without evidence and evidence is almost meaningless without the ability to make leaps of faith beyond that which can be absolutely known (i.e., the basis of science). One does not really function well, if at all, without the other.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

What does it take to be a true Seventh-day Adventist?
I guess someone who accepts neo-Darwinism must have some problems with the reality of Biblical prophecy…


What does it take to be a true Seventh-day Adventist?
You didn’t answer my question as to what you would do if you happened to have been in a place like Sandy Hook Elementary School when a shooter entered the building. Or, what you would do if someone threatened the lives of your own family. Also, don’t tell me that Australia has no police force or that the police there don’t carry guns…


What does it take to be a true Seventh-day Adventist?
The Bible and Ellen White are very clear that Satan and his angels were forced to leave heaven just as Adam and Eve were forced to leave Eden after they fell to Satan’s charms. They are also very clear that the wicked will one day be excluded, by force, from the New Jerusalem and will, eventually, be completely destroyed from existence. I don’t think that’s how it worked with you and your family…


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Thank you Ariel. Hope you are doing well these days. Miss seeing you down at Loma Linda. Hope you had a Great Thanksgiving!


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Thank you Colin. Just trying to save lives any way I can. Not everything that the government does or leaders do is “evil” BTW…


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Only someone who knows the future can make such decisions without being a monster…


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Where did I “gloss over it”?


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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.

Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).

Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.