Re Bob’s Quotes “Ken you seem to have a skewed view …

Comment on “Autonomy and Academic Freedom”: WASC’s 2010 Review of LSU by Ken.

Re Bob’s Quotes

“Ken you seem to have a skewed view of the state of things in the Adventist Church.”

“The August GC session that met in Altanta strongly affirmed this position for our denomination including its institutions – which includes its schools.”

Dear Bob

Thanks for your comments.

Actually I think we agree but I may not have conveyed enough context for my suggestion. I don’t fault Educate Truth one iota for suggesting that LSU should be following established church doctrine. But I think academic freedom is going to trump church doctrine and LSU will not change its ways. The issue is how much control the church is going to be able to exert over its learning institutions.

I think the WASC missive suggests not too much. Doesn’t look to me like LSU is going to be forced to change what it is doing, does it to you? Is PUC going to change after the strength of its response to Educate Truth? I don’t think so. It is in that pragmatic context – not to suggest that Sean and Shane are out on a doctrinal limb as they are all on all fours with the GC – that I suggested they should start their own college. I was not trying to marginalize Shane and Sean just be pragmatic as to how they could best advance GC educational goals.

I hope that provides more clarification.


Ken Also Commented

“Autonomy and Academic Freedom”: WASC’s 2010 Review of LSU
Re Adventist’s Quote

“If I am not mistaken, evolution theory erodes faith in a Creator God. As such, it is engendering many children of the devil, and not children of God.”

Dear Adventist

I don’t take offense to you not considering me to be a child of God, but rather spawn of the devil. I understand and respect your conviction. Moreover, if you mistaken, I forgive you my friend.

I hope those Adventists that are entertaining thoughts of theistic evolution will do likewise.

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10)”

Great quote. It seems on all fours with Sean’s espoused Royal Law of Love.

your agnostic brother

“Autonomy and Academic Freedom”: WASC’s 2010 Review of LSU
Re Wes’s Quotes

“@ken: And while prayers are being offered for you, mine is that your Tibetan Plateau not become your Plateau Of Despond”

“For that, especially that, you sure have a choice of models.”

Dear Wes

I feel your love brother and am grateful. It’s free up here on the fence and I don’t see any reason to leap off in fear or despondency. The plateau is rising a bit each year.

I see your dangling carrot of immortality as well as Hitchens’s cup of despair. But each seems to block the view from my agnostic glasses.

I really like your poetic, stream of consciousness style. Proof of creation and, Creation?

Hope you had a good Sabbath.


“Autonomy and Academic Freedom”: WASC’s 2010 Review of LSU
Dear Wes

“(Have you ever read C.S. Lewis’s “Surprised by Joy”?”

No, but I read the Narnia series to my children. Fine Christian allegory. I wonder if it was an ancestor of his that wrote Genesis?

I prefer his contemporary and friend J.R.R. Tolkein. Have your read Lord of the Rings? Like the Bible, it is a great classic.

Waiting for ‘God’ot, thanks for letting me participlepate.


Recent Comments by Ken

Supreme Court Decision on Church Employment Case
Hi Bob

I asked once before and I’ll ask again: what is your background and expertise in biology?

Your agnostic friend

Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
Re: What every human being on the planet believes?

Empirically, as i don’t have blind faith I could know this, perhaps it could only be a divine being that could do so. 🙂

Always open to correction though to those that know the absolute truth,

I remain,
Your agnostic friend

A “Christian Agnostic”?
Re Bob’s Quote

“But we can “observe” that the making of complex systems (and books, and works of art and science) is done by “creators” every day – observable, repeatable, testable. A mechanism proven to work.”

Hi Bob

Thanks for your comments.

This may surprise you but I’m actually intrigued by the design argument. My Dad is a Deist although I’m not of that bent, at least not yet! The laws of nature, i.e. gravity, that even allow the universe to exist are pretty marvelous. Did they arise as a result of a random quantum fluctuation or was their Grand Designer behind it all. If so what is or was the nature of such designer based on what we empirically observe about our universe?

The problem I have with intelligent design within our universe and especially regarding life on earth is theodicy. I do understand how the concept of original biblical sin accounts for the loss of perfection, but I have a very tough time understanding why a God would cause such destruction of his creation based on the disobedience of the literal eating of an apple. I just can’t rationally fathom how the eventual and natural demise of our solar system can be based on Man’s fall. Empirically, through science we can now view the death, and birth, of stars. Was this all caused by eating forbidden fruit?

Thus one must ask: why would a good, compassionate God create a Universe, and sentient life, that suffers and dies? Age old problem, that in my estimation has been allegorically resolved through the Genesis narrative.

Let’s move on to evolution. Micro evolution does not seem to be a problem for anyone. Life does adapt to its environment through genetic change. In my mind the issue becomes what happens over billions of years. After considering everything I have read to date I cannot honestly see an overwhelming case for a young earth. Moreover I have not read or heard anything yet that such a view can be scientifically supported by anyone without a biblical creationist bias. Given enough time great change will occur as evidenced by the vast diversity of life spread over every niche of our planet. Were there kangaroos on the Ark, or did they evolve in an isolated part of the world from whence they could not spread?

I don’t think evolution is a fraud or a hoax. Too many educated people of faith believe and accept it for it to be an atheist conspiracy. Have their been mistakes made and will they continue to be made? Are there dishonest scientists? Certainly. They are fallible humans, just like you and I, after all. But the issue is what does the weight of all the multidisciplinary evidence indicate?

Hope that helps

Your agnostic friend

Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Yes, I am suggesting that our scientists should also be theologians to some degree. I’m also suggesting that our theologians be scientists to some degree as well. There should be no distinct dividing line between the two disciplines…”

Hello Sean

First of all, thank you Holly for your comments. You have always treated me with civility and charity for which I am most grateful.

Secondly, on reflection, I do hope I was not strident or offensive in my recent remarks. I am a guest here and should behave with the utmost respect regarding my Adventist hosts. After all I was proposing the Chair of ID at an ‘Adventist’ institution! What gall and temerity from an agnostic!

However something Dr. Kime said struck a very strange chord in me: that a Chair in ID at Harvard would be a quantum leap ( forward – my edit) while such a Chair would be a step backward at LSU. I’ m very sorry Wes, but for me to honestly investigate reality such double standard is not acceptable.

I am sad today, because I think I’m coming to the end of my Adventist journey. I really did see ID as a sort of bridge between your faith and objective inquiry about a ‘Grand’ Design. (apologies Mr. Hawkings). Oh Wes , perhaps I am ontological Don Quixote after all, comically tilting towards immovable Adventist windmills. 🙁 .

However all is not forlorn because I’ve made excellent friends of the heart here. ;). I won’t forget you.

Good luck in your pursuit of God.

Your agnostic friend

Dr. Ariel Roth’s Creation Lectures for Teachers
Re Sean’s Quote

“Public association is one thing. Private association is another. While many do not feel at liberty to publicly associate themselves with our work here (for obvious reasons), most who still believe in SDA fundamentals (and who are aware of the longstanding situation at LSU and other places) feel that our work in providing enhanced transparency for what is being taught to our young people in our schools was/is necessary on some level.”

Hi Sean

The irony here is that those that are supporting institutional enhanced transparency are hiding behind cloaks of anonymity. That’s not how you, I, Wes, Bob Ryan, Wes, Bill Sorenson and many others here behave. Imagine if Jesus hid behind a cloak and didn’t proclaim his nature. What legacy of respect would he have left?

Conviction requires courage period.

Your agnostic friend