Introduction; syllabus & course — Lee Greer A sacrifice …

Comment on UNST/UHNR 404B Syllabus (LSU) by BobRyan.

Introduction; syllabus & course — Lee Greer

A sacrifice all for evolutionism – context and perspective for the entire 404B course – expectations set by Greer?

How old is planet Earth and its life? Kevin Nick

Frank appears to be arguing that he has information that Nick is stating in this lecture that Earth is 6,000 years old and that Life on earth — was created in 6 days, and is 6000 years old at most.

Some “details” supporting such an assertion on Frank’s part would be helpful.

OR – could this be a case of someone opening the door to long ages for earth and for life on earth??

Radiometric dating Ben Clausen (GRI)

Frank appears to “want” to claim that THIS is the part of the course arguing for creationism — so Clausen arguing for life on earth less than 10,000 years old in this class??

Some “details” supporting such an assertion on Frank’s part would be helpful.

Carbon 14 dating Erv Taylor

A clear “sacrifice all critical thinking on behalf of evolutionism” indoctrination again.

I don’t think Frank is defending this one in his “how dare you say they are not creationists” complaint.

Evidence from ice cores Lee Greer lecture: McCloskey

A clear “sacrifice all critical thinking on behalf of evolutionism” indoctrination again.

I don’t think Frank is defending this one in his “how dare you say they are not creationists” complaint.

“What About God?”—PBS

Hmm — appears to be a classic “let PBS tell you how to downsize your belief in God in order to accept evolutionism as your religion on origins”.

I don’t think Frank is defending this one in his “how dare you say they are not creationists” complaint.

Origin of life (DVD lecture) Donald Prothero
(Occidental, Caltech)

Prothero did not make Frank’s list – so he is a candidate for my list of all-evolutionism all-the-time sources??

Origin of life studies – a summary Donald Prothero, Greer
Caltech Prothero (2007), ch. 6, 145-59

More “I just can’t get enough of evolutionism” Just in case one student is still hodling out for trust in the Word of God on the doctrine of “origins”??

Fossils and the fossil record – Dating the paleontological evidence
Gary Bradley lecture: McCloskey

Well I realize this looks like YET ANOTHER “all evolutionism all the time” course – but who knows – what if this is the ONE time when LSU professors tell the truth about what Collin Patterson observed as “stories EASY ENOUGH TO MAKE UP but they are not science” – regarding the fossil record and stories of “one thing coming from another”? Yes? —

nahh! Not gonna happen! After all Collin Patterson is a world renowned atheist biologist at the British Museum of Natural history for the last half of the 20th century. We should not expect our OWN LSU teachers to be that up front and honest about some of the flaws in evolutionist storytelling should we?

so ok then – more drowning the students in “all evolutionism all the time” –

Evolution of life – selected vertebrate fossils Lee Grismer

Ooops! Another speaker/author that did not make Frank’s list of “who actually believes in the Bible doctrine of origins” — so must be missing “from my list” of who is trying to sell evolutionism to LSU students”.

(or maybe this guy was going to show via a review of vertebrate structure – how amazing and complex they are and how unlikely that they just “happen” given enough time. How only God could have formed them from the dust of the ground!??)

Human Evolution – the fossils Gary Bradley
More “I won’t compromise in my promotion of evolutionism at LSU” from top evolutionist evangelist at LSU – Bradley?

Oh well – it is LSU after all. What did parents “expect”?

Geological evidence from ancient lakes and early life
Paul Buchheim (LLU)

Hey we finally got to one of Frank’s “creation is true – not evolutionism” topics from an LLU professor.

Hmm – wonder how that would sound. “Earth is not more than 6,0000 years old as we can see from the geological evidence in the ancient lakes and early life?”.

Any student still clinging to the idea that the Bible is trustworthy by the time of this lecture – will surely appreaciate the “Bible history is trustworthy” conclusion they will surely get in this class.

Human Evolution – the molecules Greer

Another “all for evolutionism” and “abandon critical thinking regarding science unless you do it on your own” class? Oh well… it is LSU after all.

Evolution and genomics – fossils in the molecules Greer
— Cooper & Kehrer-Sawatzki (2008)

No wait! Maybe THIS is where Greer suddenly decides to openly admit that what his doctrine on origins – that he has been preaching all during the course is completely NOT what is found in the Bible!

“Judgement Day” – ID on trial in Dover Discussion – Greer

Having fully prepared the students to understand the truth and beauty of the science behind the idea that “God is intelligent” and “intelligence can be detected by design” and “the design found in nature” — our evolutionist-yet-still-open-minded LSU professors now engage in some critical thinking with students????

Not a chance! The course so far shows very little other than “all evolutionism all the time” evangelism with almost no critical thinking.

What leads the reader to wildly guess that they suddenly reverse course here?

Mammalian evolution: Cenozoic magnetic stratigraphy
Donald Prothero (Occidental; Caltech)

One last “evolutionism for the road” lecture before the break?


And this is what Frank calls “balanced”???


in Christ,


BobRyan Also Commented

UNST/UHNR 404B Syllabus (LSU)
hmmm.. I posted “on Christmas day”.

Guilty as charged!

But as we all recall – Ellen White calls the act of infecting the Church with evolutionism via Theistic Evolutionism “the worst kind of infidelity”. 3SG 90-91

It has also been posted on these threads that She says that innaction by the people of God in a time of spiritual Crisis is viewed by God as the “worst kind of hostility toward God”.

So now – we have your complaint that something posted in defense of God’s stated views on origins given in the Bible “was posted on Christmas day”.

I leave it as a not-so-difficult exercise for the reader to work through the task of sorting out those values for themselves.

in Christ,


UNST/UHNR 404B Syllabus (LSU)
Sean points us to a Pastor in the LSU area that illustrates the thinking “from the pulpit” that had to have been there for an LSU type problem to have grown to the point that it is today.

Gary McCary, Pastor
Tierrasanta Seventh-day Adventist Church
11260 Clairemont Mesa Boulevard
San Diego, CA 92124

…for Adventists, the fear is that the Sabbath will lose its specialness if Genesis 1 is interpreted metaphorically, and therefore Adventism will be rendered impotent.

Is this necessarily the case? Does our faith depend on biblical literalism? There are many in Adventism who want to see our universities purged of evolutionary biologists. These conservatives don’t want evolution taught in any way, shape or form in Adventist institutions. Are you worried that your child might learn of Darwin and his theories?

I have a suggestion. I’m sure it’s been considered before. Why can’t evolutionary biology be taught in biology classes for what it is—the current “science” on the whole issue of existence?

Here is a facinating thought – why not “baptize evolutionism” as if that kind of “revealed truth” among true devotees of evolutionism’s dogma is actually “science” – indeed pure science??

Why not “pretend” that “stories easy enough to make up – but they are not science” (to quote atheist evolutionist – Colin Patterson) is really “just science after all”???

Pastor McCary suggests that we all “start believing” that evolutionism is in fact — “science” instead of the junk-science bad-religion that it is so easily seen to be.

Pastor McCary continues —

And why can’t 6-day creationism be taught in religion classes for what IT is—the historic “faith” of the biblical literalist.

And here it gets even better. McCary then suggest that we all start pretending that the doctrine on origins actually found in the Bible is just the faith of some whacko Biblical literalists that just so happens to be directly contradicted by real science.

He suggests that if we all put on our beeny caps and start “pretending” that the happy fiction he suggests above were true – that all would be much nicer for the evolutionists trying to promote their docrines on origins from inside our schools.

Pastor McCary
Each viewpoint is “true” based on each sides’ presuppositions. I want my children to learn what the science is on the subject, AND what the faith-position is. Does this not seem reasonable?

His conclusion is that our children should be taught that FAITH is directly contradicted by science — (kinda like the flat earth and geocentrist universe that the Catholic church imagined in the dark ages was directly contradicted by actual science).

Hmm – yes I am sure that is exactly why we established SDA teaching institutions — to tell our students that good solid science has proven that our faith is dead wrong.

Why havent we thought of this before??!!!

That way our church schools can be a carbon copy of the atheist “all-for-darwin” public school systems — and we get to call it all “higher learning”.

Certainly our institutions of higher-learning shouldn’t be considered institutions of lower-learning! Or are we afraid that our young people will leave the church if they learn the current science?

I like that conclusion – “are we afraid” that evolutionism will do to our students exactly what Darwin SAID it did to his view of Christianity, exactly what Dawkins today SAYS it did to his view of Christianity, exactly what Provine SAID it did to his view of Christianity, exactly what Meyers SAID it did to his view of Christianity, exactly what Europe now SHOWS that it did to Christianity in Europe.

McCary seems to be asking if we actually “pay attention” to what Evolutionism’s doctrines on origins does to faith in the Word of God.

I think many here are ready to answer that question with something like “Yes Pastor McCary we are awake – we NOTICED what it did to Christianity in Europe and we noticed what Darwin SAID it did to HIS view of Christianity”.

Sadly – McCary seems to imagine that most of his readers “will not notice”.

How instructive.

in Christ,


UNST/UHNR 404B Syllabus (LSU)
@Geoffrey Barnes:

Geoffrey Barnes says:
December 26, 2009 In my humble opinoin I believe this website is doing more harm than good. Some of you obviously don’t know individuals who you are very quick to pass judgement upon. Bob Ryan, you should be ashamed of yourself for dismissing all of those scientists are “SDA devotees of all-evolution all-the-time bible-is-less-than-trustworthy adherants”.

A more careful review of my full comments on the course work would have served your argument much better just then.

I recommend attention to the “inconvenient details” – I named the examples of guys who are fully outted in terms of their embrace of evolutionism. I also stated the names of others – whom I did not have details for – so you need not “imagine” that I condemned all participants. (even though your no-attention-to-detail style response may be easier and quicker, it is not as compelling)

in Christ,


Recent Comments by BobRyan

Academic Freedom Strikes Again!

By definition, I don’t believe in miracles or apocryphal, anthropomorphic stories about same.Why aren’t scientists observing them today if they occur?

Circular argument. If they were naturally occurring we would expect scientists to see that they are still occurring today. If they are singular events caused by an intelligent being – that being would be under no obligation to “keep causing world wide floods” as if “to do it once you must continually do it”. Armstrong went to the moon.. shall we argue that unless he keeps going to the moon so each new generation can see it … then it did not happen?

Your argument is of the form “all eye witness evidence to some event in the past is no evidence at all unless that event keeps repeating itself so we too can witness it”. Seems less than compelling.

“Could it be that science is better able to detect hoaxes and false claims?” As a rule for dismissing every eye witness account in the past – it is less than compelling. (even when that event cannot be repeated)

Evolutionists “claim” that dust, rocks and gas (in sufficient quantity and over sufficient time and a lot of luck) self organized into rabbits via prokaryote-then-eukaryote-then-more-complexity. But such self-organization cannot be “observed” today.

(What is worse – such a sequence cannot even be intelligently manipulated to occur in the lab)

By your own argument then you should not believe in evolution.

Academic Freedom Strikes Again!
@Sean Pitman:

Suppose you were at a crime scene … there is a tree limb on the ground and a bullet hole in the victim — “all natural causes”? or is one ‘not natural’? Those who say that nothing can be detected as “not naturally occurring in nature” – because all results, all observations make it appear that every result “naturally occurred without intelligent design” seem to be missing a very big part of “the obvious”.

Academic Freedom Strikes Again!


What just God would allow an innocent child to be born guilty for the sins of a distant ancestor? …What if there was only One Commandment? Do Good. ‘Kant’ see a problem with that.

An atheist point of view is not often found here – but this is interesting.

1. God does not punish babies for what someone else did – but I suppose that is a reductionist option that is not so uncommon among atheists. The “details” of the subject you are commenting on – yet according to you “not reading” – is that humans are born with sinful natures. A “bent” toward evil. That is the first gap right out of the gate between atheism and God’s Word..

2. But still God supernaturally enables “free will” even in that bent scenario, the one that mankind lives in – ever since the free-will choice of the first humans on planet earth – was to cast their lot in with Satan and rebellion..(apparently they wanted to see what a wonderful result that poor choice would create). John 16 “the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and righteousness and judgment”. And of course “I will draw ALL mankind unto Me” John 12:32. (not “just Christians”). Thus supernatural agency promotes free will in a world that would otherwise be unrestrained in its bent to evil.

3.God says “The wages of sin is death” — so then your “complaint” is essentially “that you exist”. A just and loving God created planet Earth – no death or disease or suffering – a perfect paradise where mankind could live forever … and only one tiny restriction… yet Adam and Eve allowed themselves to be duped by Satan… tossing it all away. The “Just God” scenario could easily just have let them suffer the death sentence they chose. He did not do that… hence “you exist” – to then “complain about it”.

4. Of course you might also complain that Satan exists – and Satan might complain that “you exist”. There is no shortage on planet earth of avenues for complaint. But God steps in – offers salvation to mankind at infinite cost to himself – – and the “Few” of Matthew 7 eventually end up accepting that offer of eternal life. The rest seem to prefer the lake of fire option… sort of like Adam and Eve choosing disease and death over eternal life (without fully appreciating the massive fail in that short-sighted choice).

In any case – this thread is about the logic/reason that should be taken into account when a Christian owned and operated institution chooses to stay faithful to its Christian mission — rather then getting blown about by every wind of doctrine. Why let the alchemy of “wild guessing” be the ‘source of truth’ when we have the Bible?? We really have no excuse for that. As for science – we can be thankful that it has come as far along as it has – but no matter how far back you rewind the clock of our science history – we should always have chosen the Bible over wild guessing.

Newly Discovered Human Footprints Undermine Evolutionary Assumptions

Ervin Taylor:
Perhaps Dr. Pitman would enlighten his readers what on earth “the neo-Darwinian story of origins” might be. Darwin did not address origins.

Origins of what?? the first eukaryote??
Or “origins of mankind”??

Darwin himself claimed that his own false doctrine on origins was totally incompatible with Genesis and that because of this – Genesis must be tossed under a bus.

hint: Genesis is an account of “Origins” as we all know — even though “bacteria” and “amoeba” are terms that don’t show up in the text.

The point remains – Darwin was promoting his own religion on origins totally counter to the Bible doctrine on origins. He himself addresses this point of the two views.

Newly Discovered Human Footprints Undermine Evolutionary Assumptions

Ervin Taylor:
Here we go again.If the footprints upon close examination, are determined not to be from a hominim/hominid, I wonder if Educate Truth (sic) will announce that determination.Or if the date of the surface is determined to be much younger, will there be a notice placed on fundamentalist web-sites.If you believe the answer to these questions are yes, I have a big bridge that I would like to sell you for pennies on the dollar.

Here we go again … hope piled upon hope…no matter the “observations in nature” that disconfirm the classic evolutionary hypothesis

Reminds me of “What we still don’t know” by Martin Reese and Leonard Suskind