It is better to send my child to UCR where …

Comment on Video show LSU undermining church doctrine by Geanna Dane.

It is better to send my child to UCR where they will learn evolution from atheistic evolutionists than to hear this drabble from Adventist professors that parce everything in the Bible to harmonize to their current scientific theory.

The profs at UCR and other secular universities will also not try to “reinterpret” the bible in their classes to rationalize their views.

I can’t speak to UCR, but I took a world literature course from a community college. We were required to read the first two chapters of genesis, and then we listened to a blistering criticism of those chapters. The professor’s voice dripped with mockery and contempt. I could see anger on the faces of some of my classmates, none of whom I knew personally, but there was no point in challenging the views of this know-it-all. It really opened my eyes to critically reevaluate my beliefs, and I had no one at the college to turn to. No one.

At this point in my college career, I have taken a lot of classes at a community college, even more at a major state university, and a good number at several Adventist colleges including La Sierra. Apart from this nasty literature professor, I heard no spiritual talk whatsoever at public universities. I occasionally heard biology faculty speak among themselves about creationists, and they used language that can’t be repeated here. These faculty were nice to me personally, but there’s no question how they felt about my beliefs. I mustered the courage to share my beliefs and they politely listened, but I could tell from their expressions they thought I was an idiot to believe such things. When I pointed out some objectionable material in a geology course that I took, this professor countered me firmly and effectively and made me regret voicing my alternative views. I didn’t have fellow Christians to hang out with or date while at these secular institutions. Yes, they saved me a lot of money, but I felt alone with God much of the time while my academy friends were at Adventist colleges. Many of my secular friends just wanted to party, which was a scene I wanted no part of.

At Adventist colleges, including La Sierra, there was a very warm and supportive Christian atmosphere. Many classes began with prayer. I didn’t hear any teaching of evolution as fact, not even in the few biology classes I took at La Sierra. Most of the students were very sincere Christians who lived their faith and for whom issues of origins were the furthest thing from their mind (and they took no classes in which they could have been “lead astray”). I developed wonderful friendships and dated some terrific Adventists who would have made a fine spouse had I chosen to go that direction. I went to church with my friends and could talk about deep religious issues much more pertinent than six days and 6,000 years. No one in my group of friends though much of anything about six days and 6,000 years, except that some of these are now quite angry about the treatment of La Sierra by many of you (word gets around).

I don’t understand why anyone would call for the closure of an Adventist college or even to suggest that students would be better off going to a secular school. There are many individuals like me who greatly valued their experiences at Adventist colleges. Most students never take a course where they are confronted with issues of origins. Origins is not the holy grail of Christianity and should not be for Adventism. Some of you seek to destroy the many positive experiences of thousands of young Adventists who are completely unaffected by the evolution-creation debate. I was impressed by what Dr. Osborn had to say. Recent studies suggest that relationships, not doctrines, are most likely to help retain young people in the church. I totally believe that. Rather than forcing faculty to sign statements of doctrinal belief, perhaps a better approach would be to screen faculty who understand how to relate to students and encourage their faith building. I took classes from quite a few such faculty.

I don’t understand the fixation on this one issue and the hatred toward an entire school based on the unfortunate actions of a very few individuals. Thank you for reading this with an open mind.

In His arms,


Geanna Dane Also Commented

Video show LSU undermining church doctrine
I don’t think there is anything any of you truly wish to hear from me. It doesn’t matter how nice or agreeable I am, everything gets interpreted from an extreme point of view that I am seldom able to anticipate. If I have misplaced anything, it has been my time spent here. I agree on many issues about the message, but I don’t share the personal vendetta and punitive approach that others articulate here.

I wrote a very nice, very sincere reply to Sean, thanking him for the many positive things he does for the church. There was no anger or sarcasm in the message. I don’t know why it has not been approved for posting yet, but he is welcome to treat and interpret the message as he wishes. I’ve made my peace and I am finished for good.


Video show LSU undermining church doctrine

Thank you for your concerns about the education of Adventist young people and for trying to find solutions to save them from losing their faith. We need them and they need us.

Thank you for attempting to share with Adventists your understanding of the overwhelming evidence that supports our belief in God, the Bible, Genesis, 6 days, 6,000 years, the spirit of prophecy, the nonexistance of the flying spaghetti monster, and the like. It’s refreshing to know that faith is not enough.

Thank you for bringing the importance of “transparency” and “on the church’s dime” to our attention. Your concepts are like manna to the faithful.

Thank you for pointing out individuals and institutions by name, and making clear to us how they continue to undermine the fundamental values and beliefs of our church and how our administrators have utterly failed to correct them. They must surely be a part of the much-anticipated omega apostasy.

Thank you for taking so much time to correct those of us who disagree with you. Perhaps there is hope for us after all.

Thank you for adhering so vigorously to what you believe to be God’s will for your life. We admire your fidelity to your stated positions and family and spiritual values.

Thank you for defending the faith of those who do not understand or agree with your views but still believe in many of the same spiritual truths that you do. We can only hope that they too can find their way to the kingdom of God.

Thank you for being so patient and respectful toward those who hold to different views than you do. Your example will perhaps inspire these individuals in ways that only God can understand.

May God bless you abundantly.

Video show LSU undermining church doctrine

So, no big deal right? Since most are not affected nothing needs to be done for those that are?

I didn’t say either, Sean. I respectfully pointed out that it was unnecessarily cruel, in my humble opinion, to shut down a university (as some have argued), ship it to Europe (as one individual suggested), or tell parents to send their children elsewhere when so many students have no exposure to the lies and theft that you have diligently brought to our attention and receive blessings from an Adventist college that are very difficult to get from a secular college.

Why is it that I can’t say even one acceptable thing here? No one should object to anything I’ve written in the past few posts above this one. Can’t you simply say, “Thank you Geanna for sharing your experiences and views. You raise some valid points.”

Recent Comments by Geanna Dane

Ravi Zacharias: Should Church Members be Held to a Higher Standard?
Professor Kent, thank you for defending me, but its not really necessary. You have been very kind to me and I have greatly appreciated the way you and your wife so generously share your faith. You have given me added confidence in the Bible and I have a better understanding of how to trust God’s word ahead of science. Thanks to your encouragement I now enjoy attending church more than ever. I have also learned that my personal experience with God is much stronger when I avoid contentious and negative websites like this one. After reading a few posts here I can’t bear the thought of reading more. Makes my stomach turn.

Your friend,

Ravi Zacharias: Should Church Members be Held to a Higher Standard?
Wow, a friend gave me a phone call and sure enough, my name has come up here again.

Ken, please understand that you are seeing some of the worst of Adventism at this website. I don’t understand the mean-spirited and snarkey posts that are so common here even from clergy like Pastor Constantinescu. I can forgive their treatment of me and others as I attribute their comments to the impersonal nature of the internet. I strongly suspect that if I were casually chatting with them in the foyer after church they would be very kind and gracious, much like most other church members that I sit down with in the pews each week. I prefer to assume these men are sincere upstanding Christians and so I don’t wish to respond in kind to their remarks.

I actually have family in Michigan and fully intend to sit in on a service by Pastor Constantinescu one day. I will make a point to visit with him personally after the service and he will not know who I am (unless I decide to publicy post my impression afterwards- which I think would be uncharitable of me). He will answer to God how he has treated me and others here, and how he treats people in person. I don’t care to defend myself further. Believe whatever you wish to believe, Ken, but know that Jesus loved his enemies and we should be willing to do the same.

Wisbey talks about LSU and what he wants you to know
Wow, Sean, I didn’t intend to provoke you. Sorry about that. I did find your response insightful nevertheless.

This is the argument of those like Dawkins and Provine who argue against the practicality of believing in a God that offers no positive evidence of His existence. They rightly suggest that such a “faith” is equivalent to believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


You’ve just illustrated a basic limitation of science – that nothing is absolutely provable by science. There are only degrees of certainty in science. Nothing is absolute. There isn’t even absolute positive evidence in science since everything must be subjectively interpreted with potentially falsifiable theories…

But of course…

this does not mean that God hasn’t given us abundant evidence right now – scientifically viable evidence of His existence and the reliability of His Word, revealed will for our lives, and a solid scientific basis for a bright future that He has promised.

Thank you for sharing.

Wisbey talks about LSU and what he wants you to know

@myself: Of course, to say that macroevolutionary changes are possible also represents an assumption that cannot be validated by science and requires faith, but it leaves open possibilities that can be studied by science–which contrasts sharply with the position of the macroevolution denier.

Before dissecting this statement, please bear in mind that one cannot prove a negative (other than things like a mathematical term or a chemical charge). One cannot prove that a volcano never erupted at the present-day site of the U.S. capital. One cannot prove that bigfoot (the big hairy ape of North America) does not exist today. One cannot prove that Abe Lincoln never told a lie.

Wisbey talks about LSU and what he wants you to know

While I agree with your conclusion that the original gene pool very likely had greater functional potential regarding quality and potential for diversification, your contention that much of the genome is non-functional evolutionary garbage doesn’t seem to be true.

Sean, given your understanding of changes in what we view to be functional DNA, perhaps you would find agreement with the following statement from Armin Moczek (Current Topics in Developmental Biology 86:135-162, 2009): “novel traits do not require new genes or developmental pathways to come into being, but instead may arise from co-option of pre-existing developmental machinery into new contexts”.

Evolutionists have long been open to the likelihood that microevolutionary mechanisms may not be responsible for macroevolutionary change, and that a substantial disjunct (i.e. no continuum) exists between microevolution and macroevolution. Many of the mechanisms proposed for macroevolutionary change are derived from, and will continue to come from, comparative developmental biology, but they are not limited to this. As Reznick and Ricklefs point out, basic processes of diversification and extinction may be more relevant than appreciated by many (Nature 457:837-842, 2009). There is a lot we don’t know but much will be learned.

To say that macroevolutionary changes are impossible is a claim that exceeds what is known and relies strictly on faith. And that’s okay so long as one does not use science, which is far from complete on the topic, to back this claim. However tempting the argument from ignorance may be, it is simply inappropriate. Of course, to say that macroevolutionary changes are possible also represents an assumption that cannot be validated by science and requires faith, but it leaves open possibilities that can be studied by science–which contrasts sharply with the position of the macroevolution denier.

Personally, I don’t believe we will have good answers until we learn while sitting at the knee of Jesus. I can live by faith until then.