@Alexander Carpenter: So, Share: Ah yes, that factual point about …

Comment on Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’ by Johnny Vance.

@Alexander Carpenter:

So, Share: Ah yes, that factual point about David Asscherick being a college dropout really stung. But you mischaracterize the intention. In academia, that sort of thing matters, in part because of the high specialization of knowledge required to really know at the level that actual research requires. The fact that someone who had not even finished college was attempting to tell Adventists with PhDs what they can and cannot teach is actually important, but that mostly makes sense in a scientific research setting.

Brother Carpenter, may I point out that you’re using the exact same tactic that the Pharisees used to question Jesus’ authority to teach? By their fruits you shall know them, not by their academic degrees. The pharisees were full of degrees and titles, but that didn’t keep them from hating and murdering the King of Kings.

I’d also like to advise you for your own credibility to not use apostates to support your claims. Desmond Ford has long been an arch-enemy to our distinctive Biblical beliefs, and I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be associated with somebody who advocates against the distinctive Theological traits of the Seventh-day Adventist church, right? Take this counsel at your own discretion.

I’d also love to know (out of sincere curiosity) what ever brought you to trust in human intellect over the plain teachings of “Thus saith the Lord”? I pray that it’s not too late for you to put your trust in God instead of man. May the Lord bless you with His presence and conviction, and likewise for myself.

Johnny Vance Also Commented

Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
@Professor Kent:

@ Johnny VanceSo, YOU claim to be able to judge from the many student comments their philosophy and spirituality? And YOU can decipher, whilst I cannot, that the vast majority were “postmodern” and “lacking in spirituality?” And I can be deceived while YOU cannot?When you choose to believe the very few, Johnny, you reveal your obvious and very selective bias. You can cherry-pick as well as anyone here. And you’ve proven your arrogance.  (Quote)

I’m not offended by Sean’s assertions about faith and evidence. I’m with Sean to a large extent (as far as I can tell). God gives us evidence to believe and back up His word, although there will be some things we’ll just have to take by faith until it’s made clear to our minds (maybe in Heaven?). But don’t try to use me as a pawn in your dislike of Sean.

You also neglect to note that in the great controversy between good and evil, the majority does not constitute the right side, unfortunately. Only 8 chose to enter the ark. Only a minority believed in Christ. Only a minority will resist the popular waves of anti-biblical worship. I can say that your judgment of students’ comments and Dr. Ness’s video are wrong, but how dare I say that you are wrong? I don’t believe it’s arrogant to say you are wrong. I’m not insulting you as you are insulting me. If we’re having an honest and open dialogue about the situation, then you should be able to AT LEAST take back what you dish out without threatening to leave the church because some of us dare to say you are wrong, or this and that is wrong. Don’t try to blackmail people for stating their mind.

I really wonder if you read the same Bible and the same Testimonies to the Church that I read, because I can’t for the life of me figure out how you can come up with such drastically opposed conclusions. I just state the former because you claim to believe in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and I am truly perplexed by your conclusion.

Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
@ken: I understand your question, Ken. It’s an honest inquiry into our human weaknesses. One characteristic of a true seeker of truth is that he/she will examine his heart daily–especially when having to make a stand for truth, and will even be humble enough to concede when wrong.

It is true that even extremists like Al-quaida are deluded in believing that they have the truth, and I dare say that most of them have stopped looking for truth in their lives. We can never settle down into a complacency that accepts what others say. You must prove it for yourself, and it must appeal to your reason. Faith is not blind; true faith is “the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.”

This is why it’s important to have an ultimate authority, and in an Seventh-day Adventist context, the word of God would be it. We all have a filter by which we process information, and no matter how much sense the evidence may make to you, the heart will rationalize away this evidence because of pain, resentment, fear, etc. We can’t fall into the trap of thinking that God has not revealed to us enough truth to know that His word is reliable, because then you fall into post-modernism which says that truth is relative. If this were so then anything would go.

Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’

Lisa, I read from DOZENS OF PUC STUDENTS who posted messages here DENYING that Bryan Ness teaches evolutionary biology as fact. Are you calling them all liars? Why should I believe YOU instead of THEM? Talking about theistic evolution and the problems we face as creationists does not mean that one believes in theistic evolution. Dr. Ness gave a lecture to the entire campus defending young earth creationism. What would you like for him to do. Give the same lecture once again to prove he’s a creationist?Why don’t you tell us exactly which classes YOU took in which YOU were taught that theistic evolution is fact.  (Quote)

@Professor Kent: Your response is the reason why students feel like they have to release videos, sound recordings and compiled evidence to show that they’re not wrong, just because they are in the minority going against the popular wave.

Most of the “dozens” of PUC students who defended Dr. Ness actually hurt his cause by proving that their postmodern philosophy and/or their lack spirituality informed their defense of him. The nature of deception is that you don’t know you’re being deceived. Satan works most of his deceptions in very subtle and almost indetectable ways.

Recent Comments by Johnny Vance

Two Adventist Universities Promote Six-Day Creation
@PUC Student: As a recent graduate of PUC, I strongly disagree with your assertion. Please provide proof to the contrary. If there’s nothing to hide, then providing it in any form should not be a problem 😉

Back to Square One…
On the issue of Harvard’s accreditation: I stand corrected! My apologies for my incomplete understanding of the matter…

Back to Square One…
I don’t understand why our educational institutions have ignored counsels from the Spirit of Prophecy. We are clearly told to NOT seek secular accreditation. Why do we care about WASC? Do we lack in faith to believe that God will uphold the credibility of His institutions?

Let all be reminded that Ivy league schools like Harvard DO NOT have accreditation. Their reputation precedes them. The Lord can do the same for His.

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At what point do we stop casting pearls to the pigs? I’m getting weary of this controversy.

For real education reform, take a cue from the Adventists
@Professor Kent: If I caused you to stumble, then woe be unto me. I’d rather be blotted out from the Book of Life than be guilty of driving you out of the church.

But if your stumbling block is the rejected Cornerstone and the Word, why kick against the pricks? In all sincerity, I wish you the best, and that you may forgive me if I have offended you. Bring all your frustrations to the Lord in prayer and you’ll never leave His remnant church for He will satisfy you despite those of us you deem to be so evil. Pray for us as well. “And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary.” Galations 6:9