The real issue in the creation/evolution debate is not the …

Comment on Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism by Jonathan Taylor.

The real issue in the creation/evolution debate is not the existence of God. The real issue is the nature of God. To think of evolution as basically atheistic is to misunderstand the uniqueness of evolution. Evolution was not designed as a general attack against theism. It was designed as a specific attack against the God of the Bible, and the God of the Bible is clearly revealed through the doctrine of creation. Obviously, if a person is an atheist, it would be normal for him to also be an evolutionist. But evolution is as comfortable with theism as it is with atheism. An evolutionist is perfectly free to choose any god he wishes, as long as it is not the God of the Bible. The gods allowed by evolution are private, subjective, and artificial. They bother no one and make no absolute ethical demands. However, the God of the Bible is the Creator, Sustainer, Savior, and Judge. All are responsible to Him. He has an agenda that conflicts with that of the sinful humans. For man to be created in the image of God is very awesome. For God to be created in the image of man is very comfortable.

Marvin L Lubenow
Bones of Contention: A Creationist Assessment of Human Fossils, Baker, 1992, p. 188-189.

Jonathan Taylor Also Commented

Dr. Geraty clarifies his “Challenge” to literal 6-day creationism
That Dr. Geraty and La Sierra doubts the prophetic ministry of Ellen White is also no longer in dispute. Note the following from Chapter 6 of Patriarchs and Prophets:

Like the Sabbath, the week originated at creation, and it has been preserved and brought down to us through Bible history. God Himself measured off the first week as a sample for successive weeks to the close of time. Like every other, it consisted of seven literal days. Six days were employed in the work of creation; upon the seventh, God rested, and He then blessed this day and set it apart as a day of rest for man.

In the law given from Sinai, God recognized the week, and the facts upon which it is based. After giving the command, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” and specifying what shall be done on the six days, and what shall not be done on the seventh, He states the reason for thus observing the week, by pointing back to His own example: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8-11. This reason appears beautiful and forcible when we understand the days of creation to be literal. The first six days of each week are given to man for labor, because God employed the same period of the first week in the work of creation. On the seventh day man is to refrain from labor, in commemoration of the Creator’s rest.

But the assumption that the events of the first week required thousands upon thousands of years, strikes directly at the foundation of the fourth commandment. It represents the Creator as commanding men to observe the week of literal days in commemoration of vast, indefinite periods. This is unlike His method of dealing with His creatures. It makes indefinite and obscure that which He has made very plain. It is infidelity in its most insidious and hence most dangerous form; its real character is so disguised that it is held and taught by many who profess to believe the Bible. [p. 112]


Recent Comments by Jonathan Taylor

Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
Belief in creation is a statement of faith. The main problem at LSU is not that they taught about evolution but that they have systematically through their religion and science departments torn away at the fundamental beliefs of the church by minimizing Creationism.

What we see here from Ervin Taylor, Professor Kent and a few others is essentially the same approach that has been used by professors in the Biology and Religion departments. They mock traditional Adventism and make it genuinely difficult for students who wish to hold to the beliefs of the church based on faith rather than secular science.


Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
The Seventh-day Adventist Church has long believed in a literal creation week as a fundamental belief. Ellen White discussed this extensively. It is supported throughout the Bible. While there is certainly room for freedom of belief in this arena, the church also has the freedom to make sure that those in its employ do not undermine this belief.

Why those who would seek to do so continue to insist on working within the Adventist Church is a mystery. Even if the belief is not supported, etc., it is the belief of the church. So why not go teach somewhere else?

There is a strange habit of those who lose their interest in the beliefs of the Adventist Church to hang around as detractors. Whereas in other churches, those who no longer practice the belief find more amicable climes.

If you do not like the teachings of the church, and the church remains unyielding to your protestations, then your alternative is to leave the church.


Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
I would like to hear a statement of faith in the second coming from one Adventist evolutionist.

So far it seems that they are cultural Christians who are actually agnostic or atheistic.

I get what Pitman is saying, and it’s not “Pitman’s Way or the Highway.” It’s what God has revealed through the Bible that Pitman supports. Do you believe that God can create something out of nothing and will do so in the future? Do you believe that God did create with the power of His Word?

If not, I respect your right to believe as you do, but do not see significant value to your theological positions.


Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
The following is from the book Christian Education. It is long so I’ve shortened it a bit but you can find the entire article at http://www.ellenwhite.org

I’ve posted this not for the purpose of trying to convince skeptics of literal creation for they will never be convinced unless the Holy Spirit works upon their hearts, but rather for the purpose of encouraging those who are on the narrow path to remain true to their faith and to their God.

——

God has permitted a flood of light to be poured upon the world, in both science and art; but when professedly scientific men treat upon these subjects from a merely human point of view, they will assuredly come to wrong conclusions. It may be innocent to speculate beyond what God’s word has revealed, if our theories do not contradict facts found in the Scriptures; but those who leave the word of God, and seek to account for his created works upon scientific principles, are drifting, without chart or compass, upon an unknown ocean. The greatest minds, if not guided by the word of God in their research, become bewildered in their attempts to trace the relations of science and revelation. Because the Creator and his works are so far beyond their comprehension that they are unable to explain them by natural laws, they regard Bible history as unreliable. Those who doubt the reliability of the records of the Old and New Testaments, will be led to go a step farther, and doubt the existence of God; and then, having lost their anchor, they are left to beat about upon the rocks of infidelity. {CE 193.2}

These persons have lost the simplicity of faith. There should be a settled belief in the divine authority of God’s holy word. The Bible is not to be tested by men’s ideas of science. Human knowledge is an unreliable guide. Skeptics who read the Bible for the sake of caviling, may, through an imperfect comprehension of either science or revelation, claim to find contradictions between them; but rightly understood, they are in perfect harmony. Moses wrote under the guidance of the Spirit of God; and a correct theory of geology will never claim discoveries that cannot be reconciled with his statements. All truth, whether in nature or in revelation, is consistent with itself in all its manifestations. {CE 193.3}

[edited for length of quotes]


Panda’s Thumb: ‘SDAs are split over evolution’
“We are in the business of saving sinners, not proving creation!”

Professor Kent – The entire plan of salvation revolves around the concept of a paradise lost, with God redeeming His Creation. If He is not all powerful, then how does God have the power to save?

I fear that at the root of this Creation question is the question of who God in fact is. Does God have the power to save? Does God have the power to create a New Earth? Is Jesus coming again? Is the resurrection really possible? (Try proving resurrection from scientific literature – it’s not possible!)

I have yet to hear an Adventist evolutionist proclaim the mighty power of God, practice evangelism, or talk with conviction about the miracles of God. I have yet to hear them speak of the soon coming of Christ. Instead they speak in vague generalities about being “good people” who are “godly” but speak with very little conviction of any Biblical truths.

Those who promote evolution in our schools may be “good people” but they have little regard for assertions of Biblical truth. They cringe at the phrase, “Thus saith the Lord.” They call themselves “emergent” and want to be “relevant” but God has not called us to relevance – He called us to preach the Gospel.

We are a church that is based on the Three Angels Messages, and those who insist that our institutions preach contrary to these messages are ultimately going to be on the wrong side of history. They will either have to be shaken out or leave of their own accord.

Revelation 14:7 – Angel 1
“Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

Angel 2 –
“Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”

Angel 3 – If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.”

It’s not “relevant” to most of the world, but it’s the truth.

Stand firm!!!!! Don’t give up the fight!!!!!