Comment on LSU graduate comments on LSU conflict by Lydian Belknap.
Ron, I posted my reply at the bottom of the preceeding section of this line of discussion. Please look for it there.
After again reading what you wrote in the points you are making here I can’t help but wonder whether or not you have actually taken part in any experiments or “digs” that are you basing your convictions on or just what you have read or heard?
2. Have you really studied your Bible enough to truly know the God of the Bible?
3. Have you thoughtfully and prayerfully looked at the prophecies God has given us about things that didn’t actually take place ’till decades, or even centuries, later and have proven to be completely correct in every detail? If you haven’t how can you honestly evaluate the things mainstream scientists are flooding the world with?
I’m not trying to be critical of you or anyone else but I just can’t help wondering about some of these things. After all, from my perspective, the God of the Bible has proven over and over by His foreknowledge of the future and that He really can be trusted. (And, on the other hand, much human wisdom in almost–if not all–areas has repeatedly had to “eat it’s own words” as time proves them wrong.)
Lydian Belknap Also Commented
A short while back a dear friend sent me an email with lots of beautiful pictures showing a garden (somehow I lost the site) in which every bush had been transformed into a bird, an animal–even a child. It was absolutely magnificent!
As I looked at one of the amazing displays I started wondering what would happen if I was actually in that garden and approached a group of people who were also enjoying the beauty it held. And if after a few moments I said something like this:
“This is so beautiful–and to think Nature did it all on her own! It is truly amazing of what she can do if people will just back off and let her do her own thing.”
What would their reaction have been? (I suspect they would have thought I was somewhat deranged and slowly backed away and left before I became violent!)
Obviously that garden had a lot of very talented hands (and minds) behind all of that beauty and I suspect they were there every day clipping away the stray twigs and leaves that started appearing here and there.)
But is my disbelief in evolution unreasonable, and show my lack of knowledge (as some scientists contend), when I question that this beautiful world just “evolved” from chaos with no intelligent mind behind it? Why can’t we see it happening today? Who turned off the switch? And why?
I’m not a scientist but if this isn’t a case of “The Emperor Has No Clothes” I don’t know what one would be. We are often overwhelmed with the many wonderful and useful things humans have come up with that makes our lives more livable but every new invention or other things ALWAYS have a creative mind behind them. Why is it so difficult to recognize that the wonderful world we live in HAD to have an intelligent mind behind it? What ever happened to common sense?
LSU graduate comments on LSU conflict
When Man’s wisdom–however intelligent it may sound, or how many “letters” there are behind someone’s name (or even a lot of “someones”) that proclaim it–if it contradicts a single plain “Thus saith the Lord” it is NOT “present truth!” however much it may appeal to the liberal minds of millions who may wish an easier way to get to heaven.
I fear we are a long way from being the “people of the Book” we once were! But, guess what!–God knew this would happen and He called the last of the seven churches “Laodicea.” Truly, we are saying, “I am rich…and have need of nothing.” (After all, folks didn’t have the brilliant scientists such as we have today when You told Moses–and even our Adventist pioneers
–You did it is six literal days and rested the seventh!)
I am NOT against true science or scientists! There definitely is a real place for it (and them) and I truly believe it is “God given.” I have a LOT of respect for true science and true scientists but when someone–anyone–goes against a plain “Thus saith the Lord” they lose me. (Not that these folks really care if a very “ignorant”, very “old lady” doesn’t believe them!) But God does and that’s enough for me!
As Bob said–“All have free will. To each his own.” I agree! (But I still tremble for those who believe ideas contrary to what God says–even if it comes from the mouth of a renowned scientist, an “Adventist” teacher or an “Adventist” preacher. (Please forgive me if I have misunderstood or misjudged anyone.)
So far, I haven’t seen anyone use much of anything in this discussion except the “scientific” views on the subject. I think it is time for God to have a few words to say.
Now I lay no claims to being a great Biblical expositor. I am just a very old lady that loves God and believes every word of the wonderful Book He has given us. I have no question but there are many out there who know far more than I do. But since, so far, I haven’t seen any comments pointing out what the God-inspired prophets have written I’m going to try to do my best to fill in the gap. I’ll try to keep my comments as brief as possible and still make the point. (And I’ve used other sources (not just my own old brain for my information but haven’t given credit because most of my comments from other sources are “a little here and a little there” and it would be confusing to try to give credits on every comment I make.)
First, let’s talk about Tyre. Probably the vast majority of our readers never heard of it but it was a very important city in Bible times. For 2,000 years Tyre grew in importance till she was the mistress of the sea and the commercial center of the world. She was beautiful, she was rich and she was very “learned.” She was the maritime equivalent of Babylon when Babylon was at the height of her glory under King Nebuchadnezzar. Anyone looking at her when Ezekiel prophesied her utter destruction would have considered him crazy and his prophecy doomed to failure.
Here is what Ezekiel said: “They shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God: . . . they shall lay thy stones AND thy timber AND thy dust in the midst of the water . . . And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD (Ezekiel 26:4, 12 ,14).
The destruction of Tyre could have been understandable. However, the prophecy that said Tyre would be thrown into the midst of the sea, and its former location be scraped like the top of a rock and thrown in with? That sounded flat out unreasonable! Yet both of these prophecies were fulfilled–although centuries apart.
Not too long after the prophecies were given Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon besieged the city and conquered it. The inhabitants of Tyre, however, escaped to a nearby island. Nebuchadnezzar then reduced the city to ruins and for two and-a-half centuries, these ruins were a mute contradiction of what the Bible said about all of its ruins being cast into the sea and the very dust of the ground being thrown into the sea also . Obviously this challenged the accuracy of the prophecy and made the skeptics laugh.
Then, long after Nebuchadnezzar’s siege, Alexander the Great came along. He conquered the Medo-Persian empire, then turned his eyes toward the “new” city of Tyre which resisted his onslaught. Alexander then ordered his troops to build a causeway to the island by throwing the ancient ruins of mainland Tyre into the midst of the sea, and using even the dust to create a way for his troops! Then the complete prophecy that Tyre would be thrown into the midst of the sea was also fulfilled! You notice that God did not say that both things would happen at the same time–just that they would happen. In God’s own good time the prophecy reached it’s full fulfillment!
Further, God said it would never be rebuilt. Since many ancient cities have been rebuilt there seems to be no reason for Tyre not to be rebuilt–after, all it is in a very desirable location. If skeptics want to disprove the Bible it really wouldn’t take a lot of money from a few wealthy people to build at least a small city there. (One dollar from every skeptic would easily do it) and so forever disprove God’s ability to foretell the future. But it hasn’t been done–and it never will be! (And fishermen still dry their nets there just as the prophecy said they would!)
Surely the God of the Bible still shows His power, His wisdom and His foreknowledge!
Recent Comments by Lydian Belknap
Louie Bishop Testifies, Again, about His Experience at La Sierra University
Larry, don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Just get rid of those who teach and and support that which is contrary to the 28 SDA fundamental beliefs.
The reality of creation is the basis of our name
This is a wonderful sermon. Due to problems with my Hope Chanel system I was unable to listen to it so was delighted to see it printed on your website. I was able to make a printed copies of it to share with some friends who also were not able to hear it. Thanks so much!
A New Endowment Program for Adventist Education
So here I sit–a “very old lady”–totally confused and not having a clue as to whether to donate or not–or where to donate if I should.
As things stand now I think I will just continue putting my own little amount to my current “missionary out reach” of buying “Steps to Christ” and “Who Do You Think You Are?” and passing them on to the clerks in the stores where I shop or other people I meet that I think would like them.
If and when you folks decide on what, how and where to help in this very worthy project let me know and I’ll do what I can then.
Dear D.Fender (11-19-10)
From a purely human standpoint, I agree with you that the problem truly isn’t “fixable” but with God in control it IS fixable!
However, for HIM to do it we fallen human beings must humble ourselves in earnest prayer, confess our own inability to make right the many wrongs we have mired ourselves in, be willing to let go of our own inability to solve the mess we have made for ourselves and truly open our hearts door to be cleansed of our own stubborn wills and faults. WE have to be emptied of sin and cleansed from our own wicked selves before He can truly work in us and through us to correct this humanly unfixable mess we find ourselves in.
God alone knows who has “not bent the knees to Baal.” He alone knows where to find honest, God-fearing teachers for us–many of whom may not at this time be members of our church. Look at Batchelor, Boonstra, and David A. (I can never remember how to spell his last name!)–not one of whom were reared “Adventist.” And there are others I might name. God knows where faithful jewels are, though hidden from our view, who can step in and do a mighty work for Him that those of us that were “raised” in the church cannot and have not done. We not only need to, with the help of divine wisdom, remove the bad branches from our educational “tree” but we had better start feeding the “roots” of that tree (our children) a lot better “fertilizer” that they are apparently not currently getting if we want them to be Daniels and Davids when they reach adulthood! We cannot expect them to carry the torch of truth through thick and thin if we haven’t given it to them in the first place!
God has a thousand ways to solve the problems we foolish mortals have brought upon ourselves but WE, with the help of the Holy Spirit, must be cleansed of our own human pride, opinions, and sin before He can–or will–work for us and through us.
The problem is not unsolvable for God. The problem is with US. As someone once said–”We have met the enemy and it is US!!” We must face the fact that WE are the cause of all of our problems and the only solution to these problems is by admitting this and letting His Holy Spirit come into out hearts and change US! Remember the Laodicean church–that’s US,–folks, is the only one of the seven churches that God has absolutely NOTHING good to say about! I believe the shaking time” is upon us and only those who have “fortified the mind with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great conflict.” Some of our “brightest lights ” will go out–but that does not necessarily mean they will leave the church. A light can go out and still remain securely in its socket until it is removed from it’s place by someone else. Let us “watch and pray” that WE will not be one of those “lights!”
The Heroic Crusade Redux
Sean, you must remember that many,many of us are NOT scientist–and that definitely includes me. That doesn’t mean we are stupid for we are not-our interests, calling and thought processes simply run along different lines. We have other talents and interests and, life being what it is, it is difficult, if not impossible, for us to spend a lot of time searching for the kind of evidence you seem to find necessary in order for us have an “intelligent faith.”
I, for one, find searching my Bible and studying the prophecies and accepting what God teaches us through them is strong support for believing everything else God tells us. And I do not consider this “blind faith!” After all, God bases His claim to BE God on His ability to do that very thing–His ability to foretell the future–which no one else an do.
And Ellen White tells us that unless we have a clear understanding of Daniel and the Revelation we will not go through the end times successfully.
I make no claims of being a Bible expert (or any other kind of an expert) for I definitely am not–but I’m trying to devote a lot more of my time to learning more about the prophecies–and other Bible truths. (I do have an advantage here because at 87 I am freed from most of the heavier responsibilities I carried for so many years.)
I don’t mean this to be critical of you or anyone else–this is just the way I see it–and I suspect there are a lot of others like me “out there somewhere.”