As a former teacher in both the Southern and Central California Conferences, I recognized back in the ’60s that the issue is fundamentally one of lack of faith in Jesus’ counsels to us as a people. I dialoged this at length with then-Education Secretary of the Pacific Union, Elder Wilton Baldwin. He had tried for years to get an “experimental” school going somewhere in CA. There were serious problems in the school at which I was then head of the music department. Elder Baldwin told me that when it comes to a vote in Conference committees (ordained ministers), that support for the “blueprint” was not forthcoming. We could have been accredited by our own philosophy as stated in the Supplement to the Evaluative Criterion. But no, we chose instead to pander to unconverted tastes in entertainment, recreation, and social life. We are reaping the accommodations we have catered to.

Joshua declared, “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Where are the Caleb’s and Joshua’s? Who will arise like Nehemiah and contend with the “nobles of Judah?” Where are the Levites who stand against the worship of Baal? Where is the Phinehas who will stay the wrath of God? Where is the young David who will step in and sling for truth in defense of the honor of the God of creation whose name we profess to bear? Where is the young Jonathan with his armorbearer who will ascend the steeps to the heights of victory? Are we a people of conviction and purpose, or will we cower behind an ivory tower. . . . Loyal soldiers will hold up the banner of truth proclaiming the message of Revelation 14:6, 7, “For the hour of His judgment has come.”

Humbly submitted, an elder in the LaGrange, GA SDA Church.

If we can put a stop to SDA students being yelled at by SDA professors just because the students choose to embrace critical thinking and to accept the trustworthy nature of the Bible.

Hi Bob,

This issue pops up again from time to time, and I would like to address it. While I agree that it would never be appropriate for a professor to personally belittle a student, I have heard only a couple of instances of such behavior related here. While I do not question the veracity of the student’s story, we do have a good grievance/resolution process here at LSU. I used it myself when I was a student at La Sierra in the late 1990s and was satisfied with the results. However, your statements seem to characterize this belittling as a common occurrence on the campus. That is not (and should not be) the environment cultivated among the faculty and staff here.

From what I read in your posts, you are very concerned with critical thinking skills. However, critical thinking skills will not always lead all thinkers to identical conclusions; this is as it should be. The entire history of music theory is a testament to this fact, even when music was studied as a branch of physics. So, if a student’s critical thinking skills should lead them to accept a recent six day creation, how ought we to treat students whose critical thinking skills do not lead them to this conclusion? Are their critical skills to be considered flawed? By what do we measure this? Should we appeal to both a student’s faith as well as skill in critical thinking, and in what proportions? In my own Christian experience, I have needed to rely more on faith than on critical thinking in my understanding of God (indeed, faith is what bridges the gap between my knowledge and the unknowable). Some thoughts.

Pax,

David Kendall
Adjunct Professor of Music
La Sierra University

P.S. Bob, as it has been suggested that I have a penchant for the formal and stylistic (or stylized), I have a suggestion to offer. I am generally able to detect emphasis and irony in writing. Thus, an extended use of quotes and words/phrases in capitals breaks the flow of the prose, as well as evoking the (internet) sense of a raised voice, making me less able to consider your points in an objective manner. I am sure you do not intend this. Just a bit of over-sensitivity on my part, likely stemming from grading thousands of essays.

Unless I am mistaken, Mrs. White specifically, unequivocally, unambiguously, and unmistakenly said that “Provision is to be made for these other lines of work (schools, canvassers, colporteurs, etc.). They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe.”

So, again, why are we paying anyone (including deans, Bible teachers, and professors in the religion departments, etc.) with tithe money at a school? It is strictly forbidden! Rationalizations of this sort are of the same vein as Saul’s when he sacrificed at the delay of Samuel, and it is from his disobedience where we get the verse “To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams….”

Perhaps one of the reasons we are having such problems with professors teaching evolution at one of our schools has more to do with the fact we won’t follow the specific instructions we HAVE BEEN GIVEN OURSELVES, rather than with the teachers themselves distancing themselves from our fundamental doctrines.

If we won’t do what we have been instructed (as a denomination), why should we expect them (professors) to do what they have been instructed (teach our beliefs)? Both are a form of rebellion, and the Church’s is worse because it is to be held to a higher standard!

Tithe should NOT be used for schools in any form. It is for the support of the ministers preaching the Gospel. Period!

@JohnB:

I am puzzled by something: I hear several people mention tithe being used to support schools:
“4. Less focus on the goal of making LSU “the best public university education that SDA tuition, tithe and offering dollars can buy” ”

Tithe dollars pay for salaries in university religion department and the student deans.

Tithe distribution
a. Elementary Schools-Allocations of up to 30 percent of the total salaries and expenses of elementary principals and teachers in recognition of their role as spiritual leaders.

b. Academies-The equivalent of the total support of academy Bible teachers, residence hall deans and principals.

c. Colleges/Universities -An amount equal to the total cost of college and university Bible departments, residence hall deans, the presidents and deans of students.

And since our friend Fritz Guy was leading the charge for evolutionism and Gay rights in the religion department — the point is that tithe dollars are in fact being “bent” to promote “a public University” goal instead of an Adventist one.

in Christ,

Bob

Is it true that tithe is being used this way?

How do we approve that in light of counsel ginven directly on that:

” One reasons that the tithe may be applied to school purposes. Still others reason that canvassers and colporteurs should be supported from the tithe. But a great mistake is made when the tithe is drawn from the object for which it is to be used–the support of the ministers. . . .
The tithe is the Lord’s, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry.–9T 247-250.”

So, is tithe really being used to support our schools? And if so, why?

@Shane Hilde:

4. Extreme cases of derision have occurred toward students who believe in creation on campus. For example, at the conclusion of a Breakout session at LSU (Feb. 2009) a group of about four students (creationists) asked the professor, who had just finished a talk negating a recent, six-day creation, on what basis then do we observe the Sabbath. This angered another biology professor in the front row. Things escalated into yelling. Yes, the professor was yelling at these students. He soon lost control and said, “Your kind of thinking drives planes into buildings!”

Other words such as stupid and ignorant were directed toward them. Chris Olmo, one of the four, said, “I felt betrayed because I couldn’t even ask a question. If I ask a question they call me ignorant. We do believe in science we just don’t believe in evolution. How are you supposed to learn in that kind of environment.” This was an extreme, but there have been other incidents which could be labelled minor in comparison. Seventh-day Adventist students should feel free to express their beliefs without this kind of treatment.

If the student had BEEN in a public university instead of in a “disguised” public university “setting” they would have KNOWN what to expect.

By providing that public university “experience” detailed in the quote above – only doing it behind SDA institution “doors”, we are sure to SHOCK unsuspecting students as in the above example.

Some may think that is a “good thing” — I do not!

Pampering the 3SG 90-91 “disguised infidels” in positions of leadership and authority might “seem like a good idea” to a few diehard evolutionist evangelists, but it is not the good thing they seem to imagine.

Evolutionism provides a less-than-helpful multi-pronged attack on SDA beliefs that few other errors can equal.
http://www.educatetruth.com/la-sierra-evidence/take-our-survey/comment-page-3/#comment-9194

in Christ,

Bob

@Sean Pitman, M.D.: Sean you are an MD you know very well that even the most basic college level sciences can not find sufficient support to establish a Biology curriculum to produce world class doctors.

A nice “spin” but the fact is that NO “world class doctor” relies on anything related to “birds come from reptiles” to do surgery or to diagnose diseases.

Polluting science with atheist evolutionist fictions about origins is “not a way to improve science” nor is it the path to more “world class doctors”.

The argument here has never been against biology, support for biology, or biology in connection with the medical profession.

(Though we can all see how evolutionists might prefer that spin).

Sean said
“But, you complain that it isn’t right to single out LSU. I agree. Any paid representative who is taking money from the SDA Church while going about actively undermining a stated fundamental position of the Church should not be kept in the employ of the Church…”

Krisztina said:
Sean it seems like everything is so black and white to you. Why do you insist on it being so simple, you of all the people posting here I would think would have the background to know just how complicated these issues are. What do you think will happen if these professors are eradicated from LSU?

Hmm I can think of a few things that would “happen”.

1. Less “storytelling” about “birds coming from reptiles” instead of simply studying biology and what we “Really see” in the lab.

2. Less bashing students who accept the Bible doctrine on origins.

3. Less “modeling disguised infidelity” inside an SDA church. Less examples of apostasy being “modeled” from the front of the class room.

4. Less focus on the goal of making LSU “the best public university education that SDA tuition, tithe and offering dollars can buy”

5. Less cases where parents AND students who complain (about “birds came from reptile” story telling being shoved down students throats) being brushed aside and complaints ignored.

What message does your shape up or ship out give to young SDA’s?

It provides a message about “limits” about “boundaries” about “a hedge of protection” about “there being a DIFFERENCE between PUBLIC university values and SDA institutional values” about “SDA fundamental beliefs NOT being in gross error” about the need for integrity when it comes to the bible doctrine on origins vs the overtly atheist evolutionist doctrine on origins being evangelized today in public universities.

How would you like it if it was your job on the line and some people were oversimplifying a situation you were involved with. “The patient died, didn’t he, so there that proves he is a bad doctor.

If that doctor were injecting the patient with “birds came from reptiles” koolaid instead of giving them an actual antibiotic.

As it turns out – there were “one or two doctors” practicing in Nazi germany – exploring the idea of evolutionism on human test subjects.

In fact there is even that idea going on with some of the Chimera work being done merging humans and animals at various levels.

So “yes” evolutionism even corrupts the medical profession if left unchecked.

It’s always easier and simpler when it’s someone else’s job, reputation, beliefs we are attaching. If you were these professors and people were talking about you the way you are talking about them, how would you like for them to treat you. You must at least have dinner with these professor

Dinner is not the solution for what we know to be the “worst form of infidelity” in 3SG 90-91.

How many professors do you know that would change their “belief” in evolutionism “over dinner”??

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

If it is your claim that these professors have not yet admitted to teaching evolutionism “as the right answer” for origins – then may I suggest a few links and a bit more time with the source documents highlighted at this website?

Sean please, at least consider it. I know you guys are all fired up about this and you have been thinking about it a lot. Eternity is at stake. You have a reputation to uphold. I know, I get it. But please consider they way you would like to be treated if you were in the wrong.

The “birds came from reptiles” storytelling has been going on inside LSU and other Adventist institutions for more than 10 years. The problem here is NOT that pro-evolutionist evangelists have not had “enough time to reconsider” their efforts to destroy faith in the Bible and destroy the Adventist denomination in general.

If someone is soooo far down a wrong course that all the efforts so far over more than 10 years have not motivated them to even stop for pause for reflection – then we are at a decision point – yes even a crisis point where decisive action is the ONLY answer.

Paul addressed just such a situation in 1Cor 5 that ended up with a good resolution in 2Cor 2 because of the swift, clear and decisive action taken in 1Cor 5.

Please be more cautious, tread lightly so that if you ever get into a fix and have to eat your words they are not so bitter.

If we can put a stop to SDA students being yelled at by SDA professors just because the students choose to embrace critical thinking and to accept the trustworthy nature of the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

Krisztina: You must at least have dinner with these professor and listen to what they have to say before you can really begin to form some opinion about what they deserve. Several contributors on this forum are treating these professors like a lynching mob would an accused man, trying to kill the accused before the trial or trying to not even have a trial. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Sean please, at least consider it. I know you guys are all fired up about this and you have been thinking about it a lot. Eternity is at stake. You have a reputation to uphold. I know, I get it. But please consider they way you would like to be treated if you were in the wrong. Please be more cautious, tread lightly so that if you ever get into a fix and have to eat your words they are not so bitter.

I have talked to the professors. I have spoken at LSU twice. I lived in the Loma Linda area for 11 years. I have first hand knowledge of what is taking place at LSU. This, together with the witness of LSU parents, students, and the LSU professors themselves is beyond question. The deliberate undermining of fundamental SDA doctrinal positions has been going on at LSU for decades. This is no exaggeration. I’ve been personally involved for over 5 years.

As far as treating others as I would like to be treated, I guess I would love it if others would simply send me money regardless of anything I said or did. How about you? Care to support my personal bank account?

You see, even if a person would want to be paid for doing his/her own thing, independent of the organization or client(s) which he/she serves and to which he/she is dependent for a paycheck, the reality is that payment is supposed to be the result of delivery of the specific product which is being paid for by the client. Anything else is theft from the client. That is, regardless of a person’s desire to be paid for the delivery of goods other than that desired, is a moral wrong.

LSU is especially guilty of this moral wrong because of the fact that they are trying to cover up the actual product that they are delivering to students. They do not admit in their PR advertisements or on their website or anywhere else that I can find that most of their science and many of their religion professors believe in and actively promote theistic evolutionary ideas to their students – directly counter to the clearly stated views of their namesake, the SDA Church, on this fundamental doctrinal issue. This is very deceptive on the part of LSU.

I myself would not think to deliberately steal either time or money from my employer. And, I would not think to deserve anything else but being let go if I did continue to deliberately do so. It just wouldn’t be rational of any employer to maintain and employee who will not do what he/she is being paid to do…

Again, this isn’t personal. My words are not “bitter” against anyone on a personal basis just for believing differently than I do about doctrinal issues. Some of my best friends are agnostics and a few are determined atheists. And, I don’t think that such views are a basis for salvation since I don’t think knowledge or a lack thereof saves or condemns anyone in and of itself. Salvation is based on motive, the motive of love, not knowledge. It is how you use the knowledge you have that is important for salvation.

Now, this isn’t to say that true knowledge is therefore irrelevant or unimportant. That’s not true at all. If it were true, I wouldn’t be contributing to websites like this one or my own website. True knowledge is the basis of conscious hope. Many may be saved who did not have a conscious realization of their bright future while living on this Earth. However, I think all would agree that having a conscious realization of our Hope in Jesus is very valuable to have here and now. This is why I work so hard on issues such as this…

Sean Pitman
http://www.DetectingDesign.com