Rich, here are a couple things to look at too: “There …

Comment on Deal with LSU by JohnB.

Rich, here are a couple things to look at too:

“There are only two places in the world where we can deposit our treasures–in God’s storehouse or in Satan’s, and all that is not devoted to Christ’s service is counted on Satan’s side and goes to strengthen his cause.” {6T 447.2}

From this quote, God’s work (in any/all of its facets) is His storehouse. It is not limited to any one denomination (per se), but rather to God’s work at large, and to those really doing God’s work (in the broader context of His Church).

“The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” John 4:20-23

This verse is speaking of worship, and indicates what God’s Church really is: it is composed of those who worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Yes, the SDA church is an organization ordained by God to bring a last day message, and it is ONE of the avenues to return God’s money to His storehouse. However, it is NOT the ONLY avenue for doing that.

“The tithe is set apart for a special use…. It is to be especially devoted to the support of those who are bearing God’s message to the world; and it should not be diverted from this purpose.–R. & H. Supplement, Dec. 1, 1896. {CS 103.2}”

Again, according to this quote, those that are bearing God’s message to the world are a part of God’s storehouse, in its broadest sense, whether as part of the denominational employ or not.

JohnB Also Commented

Deal with LSU
@BobRyan:

Unless I am mistaken, Mrs. White specifically, unequivocally, unambiguously, and unmistakenly said that “Provision is to be made for these other lines of work (schools, canvassers, colporteurs, etc.). They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe.”

So, again, why are we paying anyone (including deans, Bible teachers, and professors in the religion departments, etc.) with tithe money at a school? It is strictly forbidden! Rationalizations of this sort are of the same vein as Saul’s when he sacrificed at the delay of Samuel, and it is from his disobedience where we get the verse “To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams….”

Perhaps one of the reasons we are having such problems with professors teaching evolution at one of our schools has more to do with the fact we won’t follow the specific instructions we HAVE BEEN GIVEN OURSELVES, rather than with the teachers themselves distancing themselves from our fundamental doctrines.

If we won’t do what we have been instructed (as a denomination), why should we expect them (professors) to do what they have been instructed (teach our beliefs)? Both are a form of rebellion, and the Church’s is worse because it is to be held to a higher standard!

Tithe should NOT be used for schools in any form. It is for the support of the ministers preaching the Gospel. Period!


Deal with LSU
I am puzzled by something: I hear several people mention tithe being used to support schools:
“4. Less focus on the goal of making LSU “the best public university education that SDA tuition, tithe and offering dollars can buy” ”

Is it true that tithe is being used this way?

How do we approve that in light of counsel ginven directly on that:

” One reasons that the tithe may be applied to school purposes. Still others reason that canvassers and colporteurs should be supported from the tithe. But a great mistake is made when the tithe is drawn from the object for which it is to be used–the support of the ministers. . . .
The tithe is the Lord’s, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry.–9T 247-250.”

So, is tithe really being used to support our schools? And if so, why?


Deal with LSU
Connecting this back to the discussion of evolution vs creation, and the topic thread (deal with LSU): I was in no way suggesting withholding tithe. It is God’s. I do acknowledge BobRyan’s comment about Mrs. White’s example of using tithe to pay unfunded SDA ministries, and I still think that is still legitimate in spite of the 1980 Executive committee’s decision to discourage it.

For those choosing to do this (re-directing tithe), it can be a significant means to influence the various leadership entities to act responsibly and rein in rogue institutions like LSU that have chosen to ignore established beliefs.

And I’m sorry Sean, while I do agree with you on many things, a person’s choice to not return tithe through the organized church does not mean that they believe the organization is not inspired by God. It may mean that a person feels the organization has deviated from its God-inspired directives, and thus needs influence to re-direct it back to its historical roots.

As an aside, there is also direction that tithe is a personal thing between a person and God, and is not to be compulsory in the sense that paying it should not be enforced by the church (that doesn’t mean it isn’t obligatory, but just not compulsory….and there is a difference…mainly, that the accountability is to God alone….which makes me wonder why the church makes it a test for employment, which is totally contrary to the directive by Mrs. White that it not be compulsory).


Recent Comments by JohnB

The Heroic Crusade Redux

Professor Kent: Informed Seventh-day Adventists are well aware that the world of science rejects a supernatural creation, yet the vast majority still believe. You should not mock their faith.

Au, Contraire Monsieur professeur, it was no mockery of faith, but merely a statement that there is room in this discussion for both faith AND evidence, and also we should not demonize Dr. Pitman for presenting the evidence!

Perhaps you would see that if you re-read again what the good Doctor wrote?

Certainly within this body of believers there is room for both faith And evidence in this discussion, and as Dr. Kime suggests, we would do well to combine them both.

For any of us to attempt to cause needless division by distorting that point is in fact the real mockery here. It should be completely below any and all of us to engage in such tactics.


WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation

Ron: Don’t forget that Mrs. White implied that we would have to change some of our fundamental beliefs as truth progresses.

Ron, I think what you are implying is a very serious mis-reading of what she said and implied.

Also, how do you know she wasn’t addressing that to folks such as yourself that apparently don’t believe in the authority of Scripture? Maybe she was implying that you needed to come into closer harmony with Scripture?

I might remind you briefly of Proverbs 16:25 which says that “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

What I say doesn’t matter. What you say doesn’t matter. If either one of us is in rebellion against God, it won’t end well for for the one(s) in rebellion.
We might all do well to always remember that.


WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
@Ron:
“I think WASC should be commended for defending religious freedom within our schools. I am still mystified how the church can claim to believe in religious freedom and persecute their teachers”

Ron, the issue is not one of religious freedom. Each of these teachers is free to think and believe what they want to. I have absolutely no problem with that, and would most rigorously defend that right. However, they don’t have a right to sabotage their employer, which is LSU, and by extension, the Adventist Church at large.
Having a secret agenda (and pushing that agenda) which counters the beliefs of the church cannot be anything more or less than sabotage.
Everyone must be aware of his/her influence, and especially people in positions of authority. Officials at a school always represent the school, and if they don’t want that responsibility (or can’t handle that responsibility) then they should not accept that responsibility. It is very appropriate to ask them to resign if they cannot properly represent the school.


WASC Reviews LSU’s Accreditation
I wish the leadership of our church would disavow all WASC and the like accreditations, and do self-accreditations instead. THAT would give the school TRUE autonomy.


The Metamorphosis of La Sierra University: an eye-witness account
It seems that ‘Conspire’ is more of an underhanded move by some in an unofficial capacity, while ‘ally’ is more of a sanctioned behavior. The difference between the two is primarily the one action being an allowed official behavior, while the other is a subversive behavior in rebellion to or against officially accepted behavior. In this context, ‘conspire’ is the correct word.

When I read the eyewitness account, I was struck by the similarity to the story of the rebellion in heaven, when Satan conspired against the government of heaven to ‘free’ its inhabitants from the ‘constraints’ of God’s Law. Revelation 12:7,8,9 goes on to say that “…there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out….”

In heaven, the ‘dragon’ and his angels were cast out. Will that happen at LSU? Only time will tell.

I think a battle is still brewing over this (with LSU) which will become more intense if the church does take a definite stand (which it should). We should all be prepared for it, because it will likely get pretty ugly.

As in heaven, so with LSU: Each person will have to take a stand. Each will have to take sides. These ‘conspirators’ are more out in the open now. They have prepared for battle, and I don’t think they have any intent of coming under the direction of or submitting to the control of the board (if it isn’t also compromised), nor of the church at large. They feel in control, and they aren’t going to back down. LSU as an Adventist university may be a lost cause.

Again, the similarities to the rebellion in heaven seem glaringly obvious. The words spoken by the prophet Samual to King Saul in 1 Samuel 15:23 seem applicable here too: “For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee….”