Comment on Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment? by Sean Pitman M.D..
Carl: It gives some pause, but, when the total evidence is evaluated, it still comes out that a short-age model has huge problems. There is a good book, “Noah’s Flood†by William Ryan and Walter Pittman (really, Ryan and Pittman), that gives evidence about the Mediterranean Sea and the Black Sea. The most significant thing is that the Mediterranean Sea floor contains a layer of evaporative salts. How did that get there? Could that happen if you close off Gibralter and let it dry out? Maybe so. How long would that take?
Why is this a problem? The Mediterranean did in fact empty and dry out after the Flood – only to be suddenly filled in again once the first ice age ended and the sea levels increased and burst through, filling the basin in less than 2 years time.
Next point: radiometric dating. Would you agree that it is valid to establish a sequence even though it’s not valid for absolute dating? If so, you will be hard pressed to fit the sequence into a short history, especially since the sequence of layers containes a sequence of fossils. (Remember that ecological zonation didn’t work.)
If you have no solid basis or calibration for absolute dating, the very same problem holds for relative dating. The long sequences of mainstream thinking simply do not fit many other aspects of sequential time estimation – to include the general lack of expected erosion, the lack of expected bioturbation, etc…
Next: impact craters. Quite a few of those around, some old and some very old. Did those happen before or after the Flood? How long between impacts?
They happened imediately before, during and after the Flood. Your argument that these craters are “very old” is, again, based on radiometric dating assumptions which have been calibrated to match.
Next: volcanic eruptions. Quite a few of those, also. Some left wide-spread ash layers. How did all of them occur since the Flood?
Why is this a problem? We have a lot of active volcanoes right now. It only stands to reason that give the energy release that cause the Flood that there would have been a whole lot more during and right after that event.
Next: Yellowstone hot spot. There’s a string of cinder cones from Southern Idaho reaching over to Yellowstone. The dating along the line agrees pretty well with the rate of North American Plate motion for a long time.
Again, your dates are based on radiometric assumptions. As I’ve showing you, these assumptions disagree with other methods of estimating maximum allowable time.
Next: Hawaiian hot spot. The Hawaiian Ridge is older on the north end and younger on the south end. The dates agree well with the movement of the Pacific Plate
Same argument…
Next: ice cores. How come we seem to have 800,000 annual layers? Oh, of course, maybe we get several layers per year, say 10. That’s 80,000 years. Are some of the ice layers older than the Flood? Maybe the ice formed where the Flood wasn’t. Woops, the Flood was universal.
I have a whole essay on ice-core dating at:
http://www.detectingdesign.com/ancientice.html
In short, there are a host of problems, which include the fact that many layers can be and often are formed per year, that the layers deep within the ice are not counted visually, but chemically, that these chemicals move within the ice and form pseudo-layers, and that the ice should have melted away completely during the Hipsothermal period… etc…
Next: Grand Canyon. Did it form quickly? The rock must have been soft. If so, how did we end up with nearly vertical rock walls close to 1,000 feet high?
The sedimentary layers within the Grand Canyon formed quickly for the reasons I’ve already mentioned. The Canyon itself was also carved quickly due to sudden catastrophic natural dam failures. Further discussion of this at:
http://www.detectingdesign.com/geologiccolumn.html#Younger
http://www.detectingdesign.com/geologiccolumn.html#An%20Alternative%20Explanation
Next: North American mountains. Why are they quite flattened in the East and very rugged in West?
They weren’t ever as high in the East as they are in the West and the erosive forces are greater in the East (greater weather variation and rainfall) compared to the West…
Last: smooth river rocks. How did all of the rocks get bounced around until they were smooth and then end up in the river beds and other places?
River rocks are formed, rounded, and polished very rapidly – in observable time. I’m not sure what you’re driving at here?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman M.D. Also Commented
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
David Kendall, BMus, MA says:
Hi Shane,
I am not sure you can make a strong connection between the statement in the excerpt and common ancestry. DNA research does point to varying degrees of relatedness among species. This does not have to conflict with a recent six day creation, though some may make the argument that it must.
What it argues for, and what Grismer clearly believes, is the idea that all life is related through process of common descent by innumerable tiny modifications from a common ancestor life form – a process that required hundreds of millions of years of time.
This notion strikes directly at the concept of the relatedness of all life because of its source in a common Designer of all the basic “kinds” of life on this planet, produced during a literal 6-day creation week in recent history.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
Ron Nielsn: @Sean Pitman M.D.: Sean, I am not a geologist, and I haven’t read much about this, but your argument doesn’t make logical sense. Where does the sediment that is “washed off†go, except down slope, and as long as the uplift is equal or greater than the erosion rate, there is always going to be sediment at the top
Your argument assumes that all rock is sedimentary rock – it isn’t. Only a thin layer of sedimentary rock covers the underlying granitic or metamorphic rock. So, the obvious question is, how has the very thin layer of sedimentary rock avoided being completely washed off of the underlying non-sedimentary rock if it has in fact been exposed, as an erosional surface, for tens of millions of years?
You do see how the argument for continued mountain uplift does not solve this problem? – right?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Are LSU professors breaking the 8th commandment?
BobRyan: Thus evolutionists who quickly admit that molecule-to-human-mind evolutionism (storytelling) requires “a massive DECREASE in entropy†as the net result over billions of years (at the local isolated system level of course )– are leaving themselves with no place to go.
Not true. A local decrease in thermodynamic entropy is possible using the Sun’s energy to produce the local effect (at the expense of an increase in the Earth-Sun thermodynamic entropy of course).
Recall that in the case of the dropping ball, and the iron rusting and the water evaporating — the definion for “universe†that was needed to observe those examples demonstrating entropy was simply “an isolated and localized system and it’s immediate surroundings†EVEN if that system is standing out in broad daylight (or in complete darkness). No need to “reach for the sun†before you can see the increase in entropy as iron oxidizes. Speaking of “oxidation demonstrating entropy†– our biology courses admit to that oxidation process as well.
You forget that the reverse of all these processes you use as examples of increases in local entropy can be reversed as well, by using energy derived from the Sun. The ball can be driven uphill, as can the water in the rivers that run downhill. Therefore, local reductions in entropy can be achieved by using the increase in entropy of the Earth-Sun system…
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Recent Comments by Sean Pitman M.D.
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I think that there can be a reasonable combination of the best of modern medicine as well as the best of healthful living and natural remedies such as exercise, sunlight, vitamin D, “forest bathing”, good sleep, vegan or at least a vegetarian diet, etc…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
You opted not to get vaccinated during the pandemic, for whatever reason, but did not advise others to do the same. That’s fine. I think you probably increased your own risk a bit, but that’s far better than giving medical advice to others when you don’t know for sure that you’re right – especially for those who were at higher risk than you. It’s also good that you supported others who did choose to get vaccinated.
As far as SDA hospitals and organizations, I agree that there has been some drift from the ideal. I’m not happy that so many non-SDAs are hired to work in and to be leaders. I’m also disappointed that there isn’t a lot more emphasis, direction, and teaching with regard to healthful living. There are some who are doing this, like Dr. Roger Seheult. However, there does seem to be a lack of an organized or official emphasis on how to living healthful so as to avoid having to use so many medications for chronic conditions that are largely self-inflicted. Now, I do sympathize that quick fixed and pills are what most patients want. Most doesn’t want to give up their back health habits, so doctors often just give up and give their patients what they want. Still, this does not excuse the lack of effort along these lines in our hospitals and medical schools. Also, more should be done to spread the Gospel Message in our hospitals as well…
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
Thank you for your kind words and support. I really appreciate it very much!
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
I’m fine with open dialogue, but that includes presenting and at least understanding things from the GC’s perspective and why the significant majority of SDAs and GC delegates believe that the GC did the right thing during the pandemic and with the original 2015 statement on vaccines.
Conrad Vine Continues to Attack Church Leadership
So, it’s impossible to be a doctor who promotes the best of modern medicine as well as the best natural remedies and still be a follower of Jesus? Really? Not even Ellen White could be saved then…
