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I agree with others above that there’s nothing Adventist about any theistic evolution option. It reduces the church to a cultural relic, with no doctrinal significance. Although I feel hopeful that the church will stand down this threat, if it should fail to do so and eventually embrace evolution, I will be forced to withdraw my membership. Adventism and Darwinism cannot mix; they are like iron and clay. For that matter, Christianity and Darwinism cannot mix. It is heresy in the worst way. Choose the Bible, or choose Origin of Species … but you can’t have both.

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Ellen first wrote this quote in about 1856 about 5 years after Darwin published his Origin of the Species. What is utterly fantastic about this is that this idea that geology as a science must be understood within a paradigm (in this case Biblical history). This concept was not realized until the mid twentieth century when Thomas Khun explained how science can only be done within a paradigm. Here again, Ellen was 100 years ahead of her time. The problem is that we have not appreciated what she has really said. In another place Ellen talks about how students who take sciences from secular universities must be STRONG IN THE FAITH. Thus again showing that the real issue is not about science vs religion but rather religious beliefs vs. religious beliefs. What we have in some of our schools are people who attended public Us and didn’t realize that they were facing issues of faith. They became fooled by the claim of naturalists and evolutionists that the issue was science vs. religion and so they have been compromising their faith ever since and teaching others to do the same.

We need people who will stand up and say that this is all about faith in the Bible and which religious belief you are going to accept as true — Naturalism or Creationism.

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Pfandl said -

2. The original Creation account. This view sees the six-day Creation week beginning in verse 1, not in verse 3. In other words, “heaven and earth” in verse 1 refers only to our planetary system or our Milky Way and not to the universe as a whole. The reason is that in Isaiah 65:17 and Revelation 21:1 “heaven and earth” do not refer to a re-creation of the universe but only to that part of the uni verse contaminated by sin.

This was J. N. Andrews’s view. He believed that the universe was created on day one. “If we could be placed back some 6,000 years in the past, and from that point survey the vast abyss of space now studded with the stars of heaven,what should we behold? Blank nothing. The host of heaven did not then exist. Our earth itself had not risen into being. The vast infinity of space was literally, as job expresses it, ‘the empty place,’ and that which filled it was ‘nothing’ Job 26:7. Utter and profound darkness rested upon the great void. Even the materials which subsequently formed the worlds had no existence.” 4

Possibly J.N Andrews’ view is supposed to have a #3 by it because it does not look like the #2 that is listed above.

in Christ,

Bob

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This is not unlike the Catholic church’s recent statementa about aliens on other planets and that the Christian world needs to adjust its views to aliens being real (for what reason? Maybe the Catholic church thinks they are going to show up).

Anyway – all very strange stuff.

BTW – Maranatha 210 says that “heathen deities.. will exhibit themselves before the cities of the world” (Whatever that means).

In the same way Pfandl’s statement (with names attached) appears to be preparing the Adventist church in general for a coming reality – that is most unnexpected.

1. The account he gives provides no instance where the Bible view actually wins out such that all of our scientists are creationist.

2. The history shows that things are only getting worse over time and that the people endorsing it are more and more coming from mainstream Adventism. The momentum over time indicates no hint of solving the problem, rather it shows a tendency towards “containing the problem less” as time goes by.

Here is something I recently put on Spectrum after having first sent a form of it to the Review months ago -

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The alpha of apostasy that was dealt with in early Adventism – was Kellogg’s pantheism.

Now let’s compare our current problems with evolutionism – to pantheism in Kellogg’s “Living Temple” at Battle Creek – what do you get?

1. Our schools today that do not tow the line in service to evolutionism – STILL have to teach evolution to the biology students at some modest level – just to inform them about the jargon, the mythology – they will meet when they graduate and seek jobs.
There was never any such thing as “teach the Living Temple basics to the students even though we don’t believe them – because the whole world is using that system as a frame of reference”. It simply was not there in the late 1800′s.

2. In the recent U.S Presidential election – we had all the presidential candidates of one of the political parties asked “do you believe in evolution” on national television during a debate – and the few that said “no” were then pummeled by the press over the next week or two with demands that they recant combined with insistence that nobody could be president that did not “believe” in evolutionism.
By comparison – there was no such “you must believe in Kellogg’s Living Temple or you cannot be elected to political office” nonsense in the 1800′s or early 1900′s.

3. In America – government grant funding is fully behind evolutionism as is the National Academy of Sciences. So anyone going into a field of research that might be remotely related to a field that evolutionists are interested in – will find a lot of jobs helping to promote an evolutionist agenda and none for Creation. Imagine for a moment that this were the case for Kellogg’s “living temple”.
Simply no comparison. Do we get out of science? I don’t think so. Well then where will this end up?

4. Acceptance of Evolution by the general public in Europe is reported to be well above 90% – and it has already destroyed Christian church attendance in Europe (it is down about 90% from what it was in the 1950′s in terms of % of population attending services) and will soon reach that point in Canada, and American acceptance of evolution is on the rise.
By comparison – there was no such world wide momentum behind Kellogg’s Living temple at the time the Adventists were dealing with it. Having all of society line up behind the mythology of evolutionism applies peer pressure at the grass roots level before students even get to college.

5. All indications are that if time continues long enough – almost all of our Universities will eventually fall, if our denominational response to this crisis is no more “insightful” than what we have seen over the last 12 years.

So while it is true that some “Worse thing” could always show up in the next few years – this one is plenty bad enough to be an “Omega of a most shocking nature”.

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“When properly conducted, church schools will be the means of lifting the standard of truth in the places where they are established; for children who are receiving a Christian education will be witnesses for Christ. As Jesus in the temple solved the mysteries which priests and rulers had not discerned, so in the closing work of this earth, children who have been rightly educated will in their simplicity speak words which will be an astonishment to men who now talk of ‘higher education.’ As the children sang in the temple courts, ‘Hosanna! Blessed is He that cometh in the name
20
of the Lord,’ so in these last days, children’s voices will be raised to give the last message of warning to a perishing world. When heavenly intelligences see that men are no longer permitted to present the truth, the Spirit of God will come upon the children, and they will do a work in the proclamation of the truth which the older workers cannot do, because their way will be hedged up. {PH124 19.6}
“Our church schools are ordained by God to prepare the children for this great work. Here children are to be instructed in the special truths for this time. . . . By them God’s message will be made known, and His saving health to all nations.”–Test., Vol. VI, pp. 202, 203. {PH124 20.1}
1. The Bible.–”The Word of God is the most perfect educational book in our world.”–Sp. Test., page 19.
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{PH124 20.2}

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“I think the problem is apathy. People don’t want to know “the negative.” They don’t want to see any “dirty laundry,” much less be participant to hanging it out to the open air and sunshine for a proper cleansing.”

Yes, apathy, Erik. Simply because they think and hope they have no accountability in the matter. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Has a more comprehensive application than many suppose.

That we must certainly have “the Spirit of Jesus” in our response, this may not be as easy to define as some may think. “The Spirit of Jesus” is manifested throughout scripture in a number of ways.

The prophets were generally confrontational. But this is not the only format God had used in the past. Patience and support is another virtue in some circumstances.

Most people hate confrontation. It causes division and usually considerable pain and discomfort. Yet, in the end, it seems to be the only final solution in any religious controversy.

Luther desired to reform the church. And many agreed. But when reformation was impossible, not a few opted to bow out and just let it go. Or, as Father Staupitz said, “I can not choose to destroy my church.”

Often times, love for the church is simply love of self and self righteousness. And when people are convinced that, loyalty to the church, is, ipso facto, loyalty to Christ, you can be sure the church can and will become an instrument of Satan to undermine God and His kingdom.

Sad to say, much of Adventism today has wandered far from the bible. And EGW is simply ignored except in areas where she speaks in generic terms of unity, love, and helping your neighbor. This is nothing but a social gospel when it is not clearly stated in a more definitive context of doctrine and bible truth.

Even the investigative judgment has little dynamic if and when the law is so dumb down it no longer has any teeth. The Sabbath is the final test. Not the only test.

The intensity of our convictions and actions, are directly related to how important we think any issue is. Or, if we think we have any responsibility or culpability in the outcome.

“I’m OK, you’re OK” is the basic norm. Don’t confront anyone and mind your own business is the common advice. Even pastors can not preach and teach the “straight testimony” for fear of being chided by their leaders.

So, the saying goes,
“He who has a thing to sell,
and goes and whispers in a well,
Is not so apt to get the dollars,
As he who climbs a tree and hollars.”

Maybe it is even too late to hollar. But remember this, the prophets would not “shut up” and were unrelenting in demanding accountability. Of course, they weren’t very popular people, were they?

I doubt Shane is very popular by most in Adventism who consider his challenge. Hopefully, more than we think.

And like Luther’s day, there are more than a few rebels who will use it as an excuse to attack anything and everything, regardless. Truth is always precarious.

Bill Sorensen

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I think the problem is apathy. People don’t want to know “the negative.” They don’t want to see any “dirty laundry,” much less be participant to hanging it out to the open air and sunshine for a proper cleansing.

I’ve tried talking to a few about this problem and their response was a mixture of incredulity (as in “you’re not going to get me to believe that”) and of disinterest. Putting one’s head in the proverbial sand will not make the problems go away. But it is true that we must face the problems in the right spirit and with wisdom.

There are three swords that the Bible tells us we must choose from: that of Hazael, or of Jehu, or of Elisha. He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. We must choose one of the above. There is no escaping from all three, according to 1 Kings 19:17, but one of them must take us. Will it be that of Hazael, who as an outsider cruelly persecuted and slaughtered God’s people? Will it be that of Jehu, who as a member raised his sword against his own leaders? Or will it be that of Elisha, who had the double portion of God’s Spirit: truth and mercy, justice and love?

It is high time to see cleansing in the church. But let us not become Jehus and Hazaels. We can stand up for truth without living by the sword of criticism. We must speak the truth, but always in love.

Erik

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