Comment on Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation by Sean Pitman.
@pauluc:
There was an expanse or “raqia” created that God called the “heavens” in which birds fly and where rain clouds may exist. The solid or metallic dome concept was not necessarily the default view of the raqia by the Biblical authors (contrary to the claims of Bull and Guy) this the term is used to cover a very wide variety of meanings in the Bible – to include non-solid expanses or spaces within which living things live and move.
Also, according to several scholars of Hebrew, the Bible suggests that the Sun, moon, and stars became visible on the fourth day from the perspective of the Earth-bound observer who was witnessing the creation events. The fact that God created the stars is mentioned almost as an aside – like, “By the way, in case you were wondering, God is the one who made the stars”, but not during the creation week of this little planet (referring back to Job 38:7 – also thought to have been written by Moses by the way). In short, the Bible doesn’t say that the entire universe was created in six days. The Bible actually claims pre-existence of the universe before the Earth’s creation week as already noted several times. The first couple chapters of Genesis are only clearly talking about the formation of the Earth during the creation week to make the Earth habitable for complex life.
None of this is to suggest that God revealed all the details of what happened to the authors of the Bible. God did not dictate the wording of the Biblical texts. What happened is that God showed the author of the Genesis account (Moses) what happened from a limited perspective. Moses saw the “movie”, if you will, of creation and simply wrote down what he saw as best as he could explain it from his limited perspective.
It’s like a young child being show a television set and asking the child to explain it. The child might describe it as a box with little people inside. This is a valid empirical observation despite the fact that the child doesn’t really understand the complete nature of the TV.
In the same way, the description of creation week is still valid even though the perspective of the observer was limited. It doesn’t matter that the observer didn’t understand everything that was happening. The observations that were recorded of a real event are still valid. For example, its very hard for anyone, even a young child, to get the concept of “evenings and mornings” wrong. The observation that “It got light and then it got dark and then it got light again.” is very hard to get wrong.
As far as basic concepts of biological intelligent design are concerned in literature, you can’t do much better than Signature in the Cell by Steven Meyer or his 2004 paper published in the peer-reviewed journal Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington entitled, “The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories”.
My own ideas add only slightly to those already published in literature. This isn’t a problem of the basic ideas in play not being published. This is a problem of mainstream science not wanting to recognize the implications of these ideas because the consequences are so devastating to NeoDarwinism and naturalism in general.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman Also Commented
Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@Ron:
So, now all of a sudden, you DO believe in Darwinian evolution. Have you talked to Bob about that? Is he going to allow you to stay in the church?
There is no “all of a sudden” about it. We’ve believed in very limited forms of evolution via random mutations all along. Mendelian variation has also always been accepted as a fact of nature by creationists. I’m still not quite sure how you could have concluded otherwise?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@Ron:
Why then are you arguing against us? If you are perfectly content with a literal six day creation week, then where is your argument with us? We are all fine with the existence of very limited forms of Darwinian-style evolution occurring at low levels of functional complexity since the Fall. Our only problem is with those teaching in our schools telling our students that the neo-Darwinian story of origins, to include the existence and evolution of all forms of life on this planet, from a very simple common ancestor over hundreds of millions of years, is the true story of origins – that the literal six-day creation week is nonsense. That’s what we’re having a problem with.
If you agree with us in this regard, what then is your concern?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@Ron:
The founding fathers did indeed argue against creeds, organization, and church government of any kind. However, they soon discovered the impracticality of this position and changed their minds. They all, including Mrs. White, ended up supporting standards of church order and government, to include the adoption of rules of enforcement particularly in regard to who could officially represent the church in a paid capacity.
Of course, those who were not considered to accurately represent the views of the early SDA Church did not receive “cards of commendation”. In other words, they were let go from church employment. And what was the attitude of such persons? – according to Loughborough?:
Of course those who claimed “liberty to do as they pleased,” to “preach what they pleased,” and to “go when and where they pleased,” without “consultation with any one,” failed to get cards of commendation. They, with their sympathizers, drew off and commenced a warfare against those whom they claimed were “depriving them of their liberty.” Knowing that it was the Testimonies that had prompted us as a people to act, to establish “order,” these opponents soon turned their warfare against instruction from that source, claiming that “when they got that gift out of the way, the message would go unrestrained to its `loud cry.’ ”
One of the principal claims made by those who warred against organization was that it “abridged their liberty and independence, and that if one stood clear before the Lord that was all the organization needed,” etc… All the efforts made to establish order are considered dangerous, a restriction of rightful liberty, and hence are feared as popery.”
Loughborough, JN. Testimonies for the Church. p. 650. Vol. 1.
It seems to me like you have the same attitude as those who where excluded from being paid representatives of the early SDA Church by our founding fathers…
Also, the fact that Mrs. White clearly claimed to have been shown, directly by God, the literal nature of the Genesis account of the creation week, completely undermines any leeway you could possibly claim in her writings for the neo-Darwinist position. The neo-Darwinist position is fundamentally opposed to the SDA position on origins and always has been. It is also opposed to the rationality and credibility of Christianity in general.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
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