@jdoe: There was the rapid evolution of predators from the …

Comment on Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation by Ron.

@jdoe:

There was the rapid evolution of predators from the time of the garden of Eden, where there were no predators, to the end of the flood when there were:

Gen. 9:2 “And the fear of you and the terror of you shall be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given.

After Noah had come forth from the ark, he looked around upon the powerful and ferocious beasts which he brought out of the ark, and then upon his family numbering eight, and was greatly afraid that they would be destroyed by the beasts. But the Lord sent his angel to say to Noah, “The fear of you, and the dread of you, shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hands are they delivered. {1SP 78.3}

There were at least two, perhaps three races of humans. Sticking to a young earth scenario, they obviously had to evolve between Eden and the time of the flood. How else do you account for Australopithecus and Neanderthals?

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Numbers 13:33 “And there we saw the giants [Heb. nephilim], the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

I have run out of time to do the research, but I believe there is evidence that Goliath was a descendant of the Nephilum, and was a distant relative of David dating from Naomi’s trip to Moab. He had a brother who was killed in 1 Chronicles 20:5 bringing that last of that race to an end.

I have also run out of time to find the reference for Abraham. I believe it is in Patriarch’s and Prophets or one of the predecessors to PP that Mrs. White states that God gave special powers of craftsmanship to the workers of the first temple. Then in discussing the building of Solomon’s temple she says that Hiram the chief builder was a descendant of the Israelites that God blessed and he inherited their skill with the result that he was able to command higher wages from king Solomon. You can look it up.

So, we see Mrs. White describing the fundamental principles of Darwinism even though she did not recognize it. God created an genetic advantage in a few individuals that gave a survival advantage to their off spring which we see persisting in the Jewish population even to this day. God predicted this in his promise to Abraham.

Ron Also Commented

Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@BobRyan:

How much post creation evoltion is allowed?


Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
@BobRyan</

I never even implied a proto life or anything other than a six day creation. I am talking about what happens after creation.

Sean thinks that at least some Darwinian evolution takes place now. How does that happen?. Did god create the mechanisms originally, and they now happen atheistically, or does He continue to be active in the process?


Walla Walla University: The Collegian Debates Evolution vs. Creation
Sean, So I think I am hearing from you that a Biblical creation model would allow for basically any kind Is htof evolution there is, or which we might discover as long as it is destructive in nature, or is not too complex. is that right? You don’t believe that it is possible to believe that significant improvements are possible and still be a creationist.

Are you able to define that bounday between significant and minor theologically?


Recent Comments by Ron

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Sean Pitman: No one is demanding that they “get out of the church”. . . . . anti-Adventist views on such a fundamental level.

You don’t see how characterizing a dedicated believer’s understanding of truth as “fundamentally anti-Adventist” would drive them out of the church?

I guess that explains why you don’t see that what you are doing here is fundamentally wrong.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Professor Kent: Nothing saddens me more than the droves who leave the Church when they learn that many of their cherished beliefs regarding this evidence don’t hold up so well to scrutiny.

I agree. I am sure that Sean and Bob don’t mean to undermine faith in God, but every time they say that it is impossible to believe in God and in science at the same time, I feel like they are telling me that any rational person must give up their belief in God, because belief in God and rationality can’t exist in the same space. Who would want to belong to that kind of a church?


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

Sean Pitman: and have little if anything to do with the main point of their prophetic claims

And by analogy, this appears to be a weak point in the creation argument. Who is to decide what the main point is?

It seems entirely possible that in trying to make Gen. 1 too literal, that we are missing the whole point of the story.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
Regarding falsifying the existence of God through the miraculous:

While it is true that one can’t falsify the existance of God and the Biblical miracles at a philosophical level, it seems to me that it is possible to falsify it at a practical level. For instance prayer for healing. How many families who pray for a miracle for a loved one in the Intensive Care Unit receive a miracle?

While the answer to that question doesn’t answer the question of the existence of God at a philosophical level, it does answer the question at a practical level. After 36 years of medical practice I can say definitively that at a practical level when it comes to miracles in the ICU, God does not exist. Even if a miracle happens latter today, it wouldn’t be enough to establish an expectation for the future. So at a practicle level it seems it is possible level to falsify the existence od God, or at least prove His nonintervention which seems to me to be pretty much the same thing at a functional level.


Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
@Sean Pitman:
Sean, what is your definition of “Neo-darwinism” as opposed to “Darwinism” as opposed to “evolution”?