Comment on GC Votes to Revise SDA Fundamental #6 on Creation by Geanna Dane.
You seem very clearly to be saying that because the church contains oneâ€“indeed, manyâ€“types of sinners, that therefore we canâ€™t discipline anyone or we will all be thrown out. Surely you recognize the peril in such reasoning. Using this logic, we could argue for the retention of pedophiles, wife beaters, and members of the Ku Klux Klan in the church. After all, weâ€™re all sinners, so if one sin excludes a person from the fellowship of faith, what about all the other sins that remain unrebuked?
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I am not saying that at all. I am merely pointing out that one can readily use inspiration to argue virtually any point one wishes and establish virtually any criterion one desires as a test of fellowship. Gluttony is a good example. Should Seventh-day Gluttons be excluded from church leadership? Ellen White makes abundantly clear they are not Christians, so the answer seems to be an unequivocal “yes.”
There is a big difference between dealing with one who by voice or pen espouses error of belief, such as theistic evolution, and one who indulges a sin such as overeating. In the latter case, God alone is often the determiner of when and how one has indulged in this regard. This is not to diminish the egregious nature of the sin of gluttony, which as you say Ellen White is very clear about. But the fact remains that regarding certain sins, only God can determine when wrong has been committed because only He knows when innocent pleasure gives way to harmful indulgence. That is a far, far cry from one who teaches false doctrine, which can be determined simply by comparing a personâ€™s statements to the written counsel of God.
I am sorry, but opening one’s mouth and inserting food in it is no less deliberate than opening one’s mouth and asking questions that challenge our understanding of origins. I haven’t met a Seventh-day Glutton who became overweight by “accident”. The interesting thing is that one can often look at an individual and know with 100% certainty they are a glutton, whereas one cannot know with 100% certainty that another’s interpretation of the Bible is incorrect. The Bible simply does not say the “days” are literal 24-hour periods. You and I happen to believe the support is there, but apart from Ellen White’s statements which you folks have canonized, one cannot know this with certainty. Further, you have failed to show support from inspiration of the claim that theistic evolutionists are less qualified for leadership than gluttons. Where does scripture or Ellen White state that a theistic evolutionist is a non-Christian, which a Seventh-day Glutton unmistakably is. You are being highly selective in declaring what one can determine from human judgement versus what one must allow God to judge.
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe there is inspired support for Christian intolerance of theistic evolutionists, homosexuals, and other sinners and complete tolerance of gluttons.
I propose the Church Manual be revised immediately to include a body mass index criterion for employment. Those who cross the threshold of obesity must resign their jobs. To do anything differently undermines the authority of Ellen White. Seventh-day Gluttons are not Christians, much less Adventists.
Geanna Dane Also Commented
GC Votes to Revise SDA Fundamental #6 on Creation
Um…just re-read my post and see that I was too hasty and forgot to use my speller check. Sorry about the typos.
@Nathan: Please enlighten me on these peer-reviewed scientific journals and the SDA scientist articles that were published.
Please enlighten yourselv. You can Google as well as as I can.. Some articles on fossil wales, for example, by Loma Linda University and Geoscience Research Institute sceintists have already been discussed in detail here..
It is just that mainstream science journals do not publish those articles that question fundamental aspects of modern evolutionary theory â€“ namely, the very limited creative potential of RM/NS or the evidence favoring the very recent creation of all life on Earth.
@ Sean Pitman: I do’nt believe there are any Adventis biologists who have written aand submitted these articles to be “rejected”. I do’nt beleive any would have data to begin with. Many here have encouraged you to submit your own revolutionary concepts to refered journals,, Sean. What gives?
however the evolutionist â€œplaybookâ€ insists that when the inconvenient details do not support a favorable view of evolutionismâ€™s doctrine on origins the first think to do is â€œmisdirectâ€, so that solving all the puzzles of life is â€œa key first stepâ€ to exposing any less-than-flattering fact regarding â€œbeliefâ€ in evolutionism.
Bob, I am getting tired of you implying over and over that I am an evolutionist. Please stop.
Recent Comments by Geanna Dane
Ravi Zacharias: Should Church Members be Held to a Higher Standard?
Professor Kent, thank you for defending me, but its not really necessary. You have been very kind to me and I have greatly appreciated the way you and your wife so generously share your faith. You have given me added confidence in the Bible and I have a better understanding of how to trust God’s word ahead of science. Thanks to your encouragement I now enjoy attending church more than ever. I have also learned that my personal experience with God is much stronger when I avoid contentious and negative websites like this one. After reading a few posts here I can’t bear the thought of reading more. Makes my stomach turn.
Ravi Zacharias: Should Church Members be Held to a Higher Standard?
Wow, a friend gave me a phone call and sure enough, my name has come up here again.
Ken, please understand that you are seeing some of the worst of Adventism at this website. I don’t understand the mean-spirited and snarkey posts that are so common here even from clergy like Pastor Constantinescu. I can forgive their treatment of me and others as I attribute their comments to the impersonal nature of the internet. I strongly suspect that if I were casually chatting with them in the foyer after church they would be very kind and gracious, much like most other church members that I sit down with in the pews each week. I prefer to assume these men are sincere upstanding Christians and so I don’t wish to respond in kind to their remarks.
I actually have family in Michigan and fully intend to sit in on a service by Pastor Constantinescu one day. I will make a point to visit with him personally after the service and he will not know who I am (unless I decide to publicy post my impression afterwards- which I think would be uncharitable of me). He will answer to God how he has treated me and others here, and how he treats people in person. I don’t care to defend myself further. Believe whatever you wish to believe, Ken, but know that Jesus loved his enemies and we should be willing to do the same.
Video show LSU undermining church doctrine
I don’t think there is anything any of you truly wish to hear from me. It doesn’t matter how nice or agreeable I am, everything gets interpreted from an extreme point of view that I am seldom able to anticipate. If I have misplaced anything, it has been my time spent here. I agree on many issues about the message, but I don’t share the personal vendetta and punitive approach that others articulate here.
I wrote a very nice, very sincere reply to Sean, thanking him for the many positive things he does for the church. There was no anger or sarcasm in the message. I don’t know why it has not been approved for posting yet, but he is welcome to treat and interpret the message as he wishes. I’ve made my peace and I am finished for good.
Thank you for your concerns about the education of Adventist young people and for trying to find solutions to save them from losing their faith. We need them and they need us.
Thank you for attempting to share with Adventists your understanding of the overwhelming evidence that supports our belief in God, the Bible, Genesis, 6 days, 6,000 years, the spirit of prophecy, the nonexistance of the flying spaghetti monster, and the like. It’s refreshing to know that faith is not enough.
Thank you for bringing the importance of “transparency” and “on the church’s dime” to our attention. Your concepts are like manna to the faithful.
Thank you for pointing out individuals and institutions by name, and making clear to us how they continue to undermine the fundamental values and beliefs of our church and how our administrators have utterly failed to correct them. They must surely be a part of the much-anticipated omega apostasy.
Thank you for taking so much time to correct those of us who disagree with you. Perhaps there is hope for us after all.
Thank you for adhering so vigorously to what you believe to be God’s will for your life. We admire your fidelity to your stated positions and family and spiritual values.
Thank you for defending the faith of those who do not understand or agree with your views but still believe in many of the same spiritual truths that you do. We can only hope that they too can find their way to the kingdom of God.
Thank you for being so patient and respectful toward those who hold to different views than you do. Your example will perhaps inspire these individuals in ways that only God can understand.
May God bless you abundantly.
So, no big deal right? Since most are not affected nothing needs to be done for those that are?
I didn’t say either, Sean. I respectfully pointed out that it was unnecessarily cruel, in my humble opinion, to shut down a university (as some have argued), ship it to Europe (as one individual suggested), or tell parents to send their children elsewhere when so many students have no exposure to the lies and theft that you have diligently brought to our attention and receive blessings from an Adventist college that are very difficult to get from a secular college.
Why is it that I can’t say even one acceptable thing here? No one should object to anything I’ve written in the past few posts above this one. Can’t you simply say, “Thank you Geanna for sharing your experiences and views. You raise some valid points.”