As you know, Darwin himself was only professionally trained as …

Comment on The Creative Potential of Randomness and Chaos? by Sean Pitman.

As you know, Darwin himself was only professionally trained as a theologian, not a scientist. What then does it matter what degree one has if he/she makes a valid observation? Why not directly address that observation instead of sidestepping the actual argument in favor of the usual, and meaningless, pejorative attack on the person’s profession or background? – the same meaningless and rather desperate argument that the intelligentsia of the day used against Jesus by the way…

What is strange here is that people, like you, will devote their whole lives to dreaming up stories without actually producing any empirical support for their stories, and yet have the temerity to call their stories “scientific” for no other reason than that they are in line with popular opinion…

Again, where is your demonstration or relevant statistical analysis for the creative potential of random mutations and natural selection at various levels of functional complexity?

Oh, I know, your argument of some kind of “life enzymes” or some other such nonsense is supposed to pass as “scientific”…

Really now, one doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist before one can recognize the complete lack of any real science behind such a fantasy world. Why not just admit it and say, “It was a miracle and beyond the purvey of any science”? At least that would more accurately reflect neo-Darwinism for what it really is – a pseudo-scientific religious/philosophical position with fundamentalist believers who will not question the basic tenets of Darwinism no matter what weight of empirical evidence.

In short, if you have an argument, a real scientific argument, present it. Don’t just list off a bunch of references published by those who share your own philosophical perspective and cite their sheer number as being somehow impressive (i.e., reference mining). Present a real argument already… one that can actually be empirically tested and potentially falsified (unlike your “life enzymes”…). In other words, it would be far far more interesting if you would at least try to actually rebut some specific observation presented by Dominic Stratham (or me) with some actual counter observation or evidence that goes beyond something as magical, meaningless, and off-handed as “life enzymes”…

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

Sean Pitman Also Commented

The Creative Potential of Randomness and Chaos?
And you don’t think it “ill-informed” to forward your as yet undiscovered “life enzymes” to try to explain the very clear limitations the Darwinian mechanism? You seem to have this inkling that random mutations and natural selection really aren’t up to the job. Yet, you still want to cling to the neo-Darwinian perspective. So, you’re willing to dream up some kind of enzymatic process to bridge the gaps, a process which has yet to be detected, in order to maintain it? – regardless of how magical and completely non-scientific your enzymatic stories may be?

I ask you then, what kind of “vision” are you and the rest of your so-called “scientific” friends trying to sell here? You “do science for a living” so you should have at least some understanding of the basic science behind the mechanism for your theory. Where is it? Where is your science?

What really mystifies me is that you’re trying to make religion into a form of irrational blind-faith mysticism – a form of fideism. That’s not how faith is defined in the Bible. The Bible defines a faith that is based on evidence – empirical evidence. Did the faith of Jesus’ disciples not increase after they saw, with their own eyes, the Resurrection of Jesus? Did not Paul argue that without this empirical basis for Christianity, that all hope was “in vain”?

You have to realize, as a someone works in various forms of scientific research projects for a living, that all scientific methodologies require a leap of faith beyond that which can be absolutely known or knowable. That is where hypotheses and testable potentially falsifiable predictions about the future and predictive value come into play. Therefore, even in science, a form of faith is a requirement. Empirical evidence and faith always walk hand-in-hand for any rational scientific methodology and for any rational religious position. After all God is the Author of all useful scientific understanding, the natural world, and the Bible. Rightly understood, they can only be in harmony with each other.

So, I challenge you to present some real science here in this forum. What do you really know regarding the science beyond your mechanism? Is the very best you have truly an appeal to some mystical “life enzymes”? Really? How is that “science”? Where is the testability or “predictive value” for such suggestions?

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com


The Creative Potential of Randomness and Chaos?
I believe you’re mistaken. The Bible does refer to the empirical world and empirical evidence of God’s Signature in nature quite specifically – in both the Old and New Testaments. So, it seems quite clear to me that all evidence can be used, to include the evidence of fulfilled prophecy and evidence of God’s Signature in nature, to add to the overall “weight of evidence” as to the origin of the Bible and a better understanding of what the Bible is saying (i.e., better interpretations of the Bible).

Beyond this, your appeals to historical evidences for fulfilled prophecies are, yet again, based on science or empirical evidence – on the weight of evidence that must be learned over time (evidences that are not based on inherent knowledge). These evidences are therefore not some kind of absolute demonstration nor have you been given perfection of knowledge or understanding beyond the weight of evidence. The claim of perfection and absolute knowledge is God’s prerogative alone. The human position of faith cannot be based on perfect understanding or absolute knowledge, but upon the weight of evidence.


The Creative Potential of Randomness and Chaos?
Monotreme remains of a platypus… yes.

“A platypus tooth has been found in the Palaeocene of Argentina…” (Link).

“Most fossil monotremes have been found in Australia, though a Paleocene platypus tooth (Monotrematum) has recently been recovered from Argentina (Pascual et al. 1992).” (Link)

“The Paleocene fossil Monotrematum, based on three teeth from Argentina, is probably also a member of the platypus clade (Ornithorhynchidae).” (Link)

Also, the notion that Australia had no placental mammals until fairly recently has been falsified by the fossilized remains of the jawbone of a placental mammal found in the Early Cretaceous layers southeast of Melbourne by husband-and-wife team Dr Tom Rich and Professor Pat Vickers-Rich (found in 1997; Link). Prior to this discovery placental animals were not thought to have existed in Australia until the late Tertiary (some 110 Ma later by mainstream thinking).

It just goes to show how fragmented and limited the fossil record is and how difficult it is to make meaningful statements regarding the earliest existence or extent of existence of various types of planets and animals.

“It is now plausible, owing to this discovery, that placental mammals may have been widespread on all land masses on earth 115 million years ago, suggesting that the way we currently look at the evolutionary process of mammals may be fundamentally wrong,” Dr Rich said.

The current theory is that placentals and marsupials, which evolved from the same ancestors, were confined to the Northern Hemisphere until about 65 to 75 million years ago. Around that time, it is thought, an island chain may have allowed both types of mammals to enter South America, with marsupials continuing south to Gondwana and Australia. It was not until Australia had broken away from Gondwana and drifted closer to Southeast Asia that placental mammals supposedly arrived in this country.

“If this fossil is a placental mammal, it changes our whole perception of how these creatures originally dispersed around the world,” Dr Rich said.

(Link)

As far as plants are concerned, the first appearance of flowing plants, angiosperms, has just been pushed back from the early Cretaceous to the Mid-Triassic. The gymnosperm pollen from the Afropollis plant was also limited to the Cretaceous for a long time, until recent discoveries showing Afropollis pollen in the Mid Triassic as well.

“Thus, similar to the angiosperms, our record of this group [Afropollis] from the Middle Triassic opens another observation gap of over 100 Ma.” (Link)

And, such examples of massive “gaps in time” for “Lazarus taxa” are becoming more and more common all the time. Such discoveries are far more consistent with a rapid catastrophic model of origins rather than the standard Darwinian model.


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Thank you Colin. Just trying to save lives any way I can. Not everything that the government does or leaders do is “evil” BTW…


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Only someone who knows the future can make such decisions without being a monster…


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Where did I “gloss over it”?


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I fail to see where you have convincingly supported your claim that the GC leadership contributed to the harm of anyone’s personal religious liberties? – given that the GC leadership does not and could not override personal religious liberties in this country, nor substantively change the outcome of those who lost their jobs over various vaccine mandates. That’s just not how it works here in this country. Religious liberties are personally derived. Again, they simply are not based on a corporate or church position, but rely solely upon individual convictions – regardless of what the church may or may not say or do.

Yet, you say, “Who cares if it is written into law”? You should care. Everyone should care. It’s a very important law in this country. The idea that the organized church could have changed vaccine mandates simply isn’t true – particularly given the nature of certain types of jobs dealing with the most vulnerable in society (such as health care workers for example).

Beyond this, the GC Leadership did, in fact, write in support of personal religious convictions on this topic – and there are GC lawyers who have and continue to write personal letters in support of personal religious convictions (even if these personal convictions are at odds with the position of the church on a given topic). Just because the GC leadership also supports the advances of modern medicine doesn’t mean that the GC leadership cannot support individual convictions at the same time. Both are possible. This is not an inconsistency.