Comment on Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs by Sean Pitman.
@Ron:
I can believe without cognitive dissonance that God created life in 7 days, 6000 years ago with the ability to evolve/diversify/adapt to a changing environment.
That’s not the issue here. We all believe in limited forms of evolution via random mutations/natural selection. The problem is with the modern concept of evolution where there are no limitations to evolutionary progress with respect to functional complexity – where every living thing is claimed, by modern evolutionists, to have evolved over hundreds of millions of years from a single common ancestral life form and ultimately from non-living materials via purely mindless naturalistic mechanisms.
That’s what the LSU science professors have been teaching their students for decades, that life has existed on this planet for hundreds of millions of years and that it evolved form a common life form via Darwinian mechanisms without the obvious need for the input of intelligent design from anyone – not even God. Sure, they will admit that perhaps God did guide the process here and there, but they will argue that such guidance is non-detectable by science – that science is incapable of detecting the actions of God within the empirical world in which we live.
Your arguments for evolution in action, and the low-level examples you cite, are without contest on my part. Of course evolution happens at such low levels of functional complexity – quite rapidly indeed as you point out. The evidence for design, however, is in showing that evolutionary progress is limited, this side of a practical eternity of time, to such low levels of functional complexity. Nothing functionally new that requires a minimum of more than a few hundred specifically arranged amino acid residues (in single or multiprotein systems) can evolve this side of trillions upon trillions of years of time. That’s the problem for the modern ToE.
No, I am not defending the teachers. I am saying that the church is responding to the teachers in the wrong way. I believe that the church is abandoning it’s most fundamental of principles by responding they way they have, or at least the way you would like them to.
This is interesting. What would you recommend, in particular? How should the church respond to those paid representatives who are and have long been actively attacking the most basic and “fundamental” goals and ideals of the church organization? If you can think of a better way to resolve this issue, which hasn’t already been tried in this particular case, that would be absolutely wonderful! I’m all ears…
Why do you assume that a professor turning to Atheism or some other belief would threaten Adventist belief? Are you afraid that Adventist beliefs can’t stand up to such scrutiny? To my mind, resorting to a creed and coercion implies that you really don’t have faith in your beliefs.
Just because I’m not threatened by the beliefs of atheists or agnostics or Catholics or Baptists or whatever does not mean that I should therefore hire those who hold such beliefs to preach in Adventist churches or to teach in Adventist schools. That would defeat the whole purpose of having a unique Adventist organization that actively and collectively promotes the uniquely Adventist position in all of our institutions.
No, the appropriate response is to engage with them. Find out why they are persuaded to an alternate view. Then engage in constructive argument and reason. What is more, you should do this in good faith, remaining open to influence yourself. Jesus is the light that enlightens EVERY man, so we have a lot to learn from atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and Catholics. The truth has nothing to fear. Truth is truth no matter where it comes from, and no matter how long it is thought to be heresy. If Adventist beliefs cannot stand the test of reason and time without the support of coercion, then they are worthless.
Again, this is great advice when it comes to your neighbors and friends, but not when it comes to paid employees of the Adventist Church. You’re mixing up concepts here. I have a lot of friends outside of the Adventist faith, to include Catholics, Hindus, agnostics, atheists, and all the rest. We get along great and have a wonderful time together. But, you see, they don’t claim to be Adventist and they don’t expect to get a paycheck from the Adventist Church for promoting their views which are fundamentally at odds with those of Adventism.
I fail to see how it makes any sense to you that any organization would deliberately hire those who fundamentally opposed the clearly stated basic goals and ideals of the organization? It’s fine and even good to honestly and sincerely talk to those from outside of the organization who hold opposing views. But, if you or I or anyone else within the Adventist Church becomes convinced by these opposing views, it behooves us to resign from our positions within the Adventist Church and join the organization that we can honestly and actively support. Certainly one should not expect to get paid by the Adventist Church for going around attacking the clearly stated goals and ideals of the church. That’s an argument for anarchy my friend – not a viable organization of any kind.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Sean Pitman Also Commented
Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
@Ron:
You are confused yet again. The ability to adapt to new environments beyond very low levels of functional complexity requries pre-programmed information to exist within the gene pool. Without such pre-programmed information, there is no ability for adaptation beyond very low levels of functional complexity.
Darwinian-style evolution is based on the notion that high level information can be created within that gene pool which was never there before. This isn’t the same thing as breeding or Mendelian variation – both of which are based on pre-existent genes or alleles which allow for such high-level variation in form and function.
In short, you don’t seem to appreciate the difference between something like Mendelian variation (based on pre-existent genetic information) and Darwinian-style evolution (based on the generation of novel genetic information). They really aren’t the same thing.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
@Ron:
So, explain to me the difference in mechanism between Darwinian-style evolution and something that requires intelligent design to produce? In your opinion, is it possible to produce all things via truly mindless evolutionary mechanisms? How can I tell if something did or did not require the input of an intelligent designer?
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
Creeds and Fundamental Beliefs
@Ron:
Again, there was no option during the Catholic Inquisitions of the Middle Ages since the Church controlled civil government as well its own internal government. No one was really free to leave the Catholic Church during this time without fear of severe civil penalties.
This is not the case today since there is still a separation between church and state in this country (thank God). All are free to leave the SDA Church at will – free of any civil reprisals of any kind.
However, this does not therefore mean that all are free to expect a paycheck from the SDA Church for teaching or preaching whatever they want. The Church is also free to hire only those whom it feels would most effectively represent its primary goals and ideals – to include its efforts to promote its most fundamental doctrinal ideas to the world…
In no meaningful sense of the word can this sort of expectation be called a “persecution” of those who cannot or will not represent the church as the church sees fit – on the church’s dime.
Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com
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