1. Did the disciples continue to observe the Sabbath day …

Comment on Christians and the Sabbath by Ken Christman.

1. Did the disciples continue to observe the Sabbath day as holy? NO, THEY DID NOT. THEY WENT TO THE SYNAGOGUES ON SABBATH TO TEACH THE JEWS ABOUT JESUS. THAT IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO KEEPING THE SABBATH HOLY.

2. Did Jesus teach that the Sabbath was “for all mankind” in Mark 2:27? NO, HE DID NOT. MARK 2;27 SAYS ‘AND HE SAID UNTO THEM THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN AND NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH;’ HERE YOU ARE TWISTING AND TURNING THE HOLY SCRIPTURES TO SAY SOMETHING IT IS NOT SAYING. JESUS IS SIMPLY SAYING THAT HUMANS TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE SABBATH, AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THE CONTRACT WITH GOD REGARDING THE SABBATH WAS TO ONLY JEWS AT MT. SINAI. WHILE THERE WERE SOME WHO WERE NOT DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM, THEY HAD TO JOIN ISRAEL IN ORDER TO FOLLOW GOD AND HIS COMMANDMENTS.

3. Did Jesus point out that the Jews of His day were not keeping the Sabbath as He originally intended for it to be kept? NO, OF COURSE HE DID NOT. YOU DO NOT EVEN QUOTE WHERE JESUS SAID THIS. RATHER, JESUS CLEARLY BROKE THE SABBATH, AS STATED CLEARLY IN JOHN 5:18.

4. You say that if a person knows the truth of the Sabbath, and then deliberately rejects that truth despite knowing God’s will, that person cannot be saved. VERY INTERESTING COMMENT. HERE YOU ARE JUDGING AGAIN–PRECISELY WHAT YOU ADVISED ME NOT TO DO!! WHY DOES THIS NOT SURPRISE ME? PERHAPS IT IS A SIMPE MATTER OF SOME MORTALS BEING BETTER JUDGES THAN OTHERS. IT IS CLEARLY YOU AND ELLEN WHITE WHO ARE SETTING YOURSELVES UP AS JUDGES ON THE SABBATH ISSUE. PAUL, ON THE OTHER HAND, WARNED US ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN COLOSSIANS 2;16 ‘LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, OR IN DRINK, OR IN RESPECT OF AN HOLYDAY, OR OF THE NEW MOON OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS’ PAUL KNEW ABOUT THE SABBATH. HE STUDIED AT THE FEET OF GAMALIEL, A DOCTOR OF THE LAW AND AN EXPERT IN SABBATH ISSUES. PAUL WAS A PHARISEE, BUT AFTER BECOMING A FOLLOWER OF JESUS, HE REJECTED KEEPING THE SABBATH HOLY. WHY? IN GALATIANS 4, PAUL TEACHES THAT THE TWO SYSTEMS OF LAW AND GRACE CANNOT CO-EXIST, AND SAYS IN VERSE 30, ‘NEVERTHELESS WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURE? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMA AND HER SON; FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE-WOMAN. SO THEN, BRETHREN, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN BUT OF THE FREE.’ SO THEN, ARE YOU SAYING THAT SINCE PAUL KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SABBATH BUT SUBSEQUENTLY REJECTED IT, THAT HE CANNOT BE SAVED? FURTHERMORE, ARE YOU NOT GROSSLY CONTRADICTING YOURSELF ON MARTIN LUTHER’S ETERNAL DESTINY, WHERE YOU ADMITTED THAT HE KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE DECALOGUE AND THE SABBATH AND YET REJECTED IT. YET, YOU MAINTAINED THAT HE WOULD BE SAVED!! FURTHERMORE, IN A PREVIOUS POST YOU STATED THAT ‘WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT MARTIN LUTHER WAS HONEST, SINCERE, AND GODLY–AND WILL BE SAVED.’ REALLY? NOBODY EVER TOLD ME THAT MARTIN LUTHER WAS GOING TO BE SAVED. ACCORDING TO ANOTHER STATEMENT OF YOURS, GOD WILL BE THE JUDGE. IF SO, DID GOD TELL YOU MARTIN LUTHER WAS GOING TO BE SAVED? WHO WAS IT THAT TOLD YOU MARTIN LUTHER WAS GOING TO BE SAVED? HE CLEARLY AND DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO KEEP THE SABBATH–JUST LIKE PAUL. DOES LUTHER GET A PASS TO HEAVEN WHILE PAUL DOES NOT?

SO, WHEN YOU REFER TO THE ‘TRUTH ABOUT THE SABBATH’, WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU REFERRING TO? WE KNOW HOW GOD COMMANDED THE SABBATH TO BE KEPT, AS IT IS CLEARLY RECORDED IN EXODUS AND DEUTERONOMY. WE KNOW THAT ELLEN WHITE CLEARLY TAUGHT THAT THE SABBATH SHOULD BE KEPT IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. SO, THIS ‘SABBATH TRUTH’ OR PROPER SABBATH OBSERVANCE, IS NOT BEING FOLLOWED BY ANY ON EARTH, INCLUDING 19 MILLION SDA’S. YET, YOU INSIST THAT THOSE WHO DO NOT ACCEPT THIS SABBATH TRUTH WILL BE IN A STATE OF DELIBERATE REBELLION AND WILL NOT BE SAVED. IN SPITE OF EARNEST PLEADINGS THAT YOU SHARE HOW ONE MIGHT AVOID BEING IN THIS SORRY STATE, YOU STEADFASTLY REFUSE TO EXPLAIN HOW THE SABBATH IS TO BE KEPT AND HOW ONE CAN AVOID BEING A VIOLATOR OF THE SABBATH AND LOSE ETERNAL LIFE. YOUR CONTINUED REFUSAL TO SHARE THIS KNOWLEDGE IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN EXCEPT FOR 3 POSSIBILITIES; 1. YOU DO NOT KNOW. IF SO, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER YOURSELF TO BE IGNORANT, BUT GOD AND ELLEN WHITE HAVE CLEARLY TOLD YOU HOW THE SABBATH IS TO BE KEPT. WOULDN’T THAT PLACE YOU IN THE CATEGORY OF DELIBERATE REBELLION? 2 YOU DO NOT CARE HOW THE SABBATH IS TO BE KEPT. THAT ONE WOULD CLEARLY PLACE YOU IN THE CATEGORY OF DELIBERATE REBELLION. 3. YOU KNOW HOW THE SABBATH IS TO BE KEPT, BUT REFUSE TO SHARE YOUR SPECIAL SECRET KNOWLEDGE WITH ANYBODY ELSE LEST THEY SHOULD BE SAVED. IS NOT THIS POSITION TOTALLY CONTRARY TO THE COMMAND IN MATTHEW 28 THAT THE GOSPEL SHOULD BE SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD?

THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION IS SOMEWHAT MEANINGLESS BECAUSE YOU STEADFASTLY REFUSE TO DEFINE HOW THE SABBATH IS TO BE KEPT AND HOW ONE MIGHT AVOID LOSING ETERNAL LIFE FOR NOT KEEPING IT PROPERLY. IN MEDICAL AND TECHNICAL JOURNALS, ONE OFTEN SEES DEFINITIONS OF TERMS IN ORDER TO FACILITATE TRANSMISSION OF THOUGHTS AND INFORMATION. LEGAL AND LEGISLATIVE DOCUMENTS ALSO CLEARLY DEFINE TERMS SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES. IT IS A PITY THAT YOU REFUSE TO DEFINE WAS SABBATH TRUTH, SABBATH KEEPING AND SABBATH VIOLATION CONSISTS OF. IF YOU TRULY KNOW THE ANSWERS YET REFUSE TO SHARE THEM, ARE YOU NOT LIKE JONAH, THE RUNAWAY PROPHET? PERHAPS EVEN WORSE THAN JONAH, BECAUSE JONAH WAS TOLD TO GO SHARE A MESSAGE WITH PEOPLE HE THOUGHT WOULD NOT BE LIKELY TO LISTEN. YOU, ON THE OTHER HAND, HAVE PEOPLE PLEADING WITH YOU TO SHARE THIS SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH THAT YOU HAVE, YET YOU REFUSE.

IN ONE PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY THAT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WRITINGS OF MRS. WHITE. THEN, IN THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY THAT ‘ELLEN WHITE IS SIMPLY SAYING THAT THE ISSUE OF SABBATH OBSERVANCE WILL COME TO A HEAD JUST BEFORE THE FINAL DAYS OF EARTH’S HISTORY. WELL, THIS IS CLEARLY EXTRA-BIBLICAL REVELATION AND SHOULD BE PROMPTLY REJECTED. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON THE FRIDAY EVENING OF PRESIDENT TRUMP’S INAUGURATION 3 MONTHS AGO? HIS SON-IN-LAW, JARED KUSHNER, AND ORTHODOX JEW, ALONG WITH HIS DAUGHTER, IVANKA, A CONVERTED ORTHODOX JEW, WERE TO ATTEND A BALL ON THAT FRIDAY EVENING–A DANCE AT THAT!! AS ORTHODOX JEWS, THEY STRICTLY OBSERVED THE SABBATH. DANCING ON THE SABBATH, FOR SOME REASON, WAS PERMISSIBLE, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT AS INTERPRETED BY THEM, RIDING IN A CAR FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER, WAS NOT PERMISSIBLE. SO, THEY OBTAINED SPECIAL DISPENSATION FROM THEIR RABBI TO BE ALLOWED TO RIDE IN A CAR ON THAT FRIDAY EVENING. THIS IS, OF COURSE, WHY THE JEWS DECIDED TO MURDER JESUS–BECAUSE HE VIOLATED THE SABBATH, WHICH MEANT HE WAS CLAIMING TO BE GOD, AS GOD WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE TO CHANGE THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT! SENATOR JOE LIEBERMAN IS ANOTHER ORTHODOX JEW WHO WILL CAST A VOTE IN THE SENATE ON SABBATH, BUT WILL NOT RIDE IN A CAR TO DO IT!! NOW THEN, THE POINT OF ALL THIS IS THAT WITH SUCH POWERFUL SABBATH PROPONENTS RUNNING THIS COUNTRY, HOW LIKELY DO YOU THINK LAWS WOULD BE PASSED THAT LIMIT SABBATH OBSERVANCE IN PREFERENCE TO SUNDAY WORSHIP? IT IS SIMPLY NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. PERIOD. I KNEW SDA MINISTERS A HALF CENTURY AGO WHO ACTUALLY TRIED TO GET ARRESTED FOR PURCHASING CERTAIN ITEMS ON SUNDAY IN STATES THAT HAD A FEW SUNDAY BLUE LAWS. THOSE LAWS HAVE SIMPLY VANISHED. A NATIONAL SUNDAY LAW, SHOULD IT BE PROPOSED TODAY, WOULD NEVER GO ANYWHERE. THE MARK OF THE BEAST WILL NEVER EVER BE ASSOCIATED WITH SABBATH OBSERVANCE.

You maintain that “this is all based on the prophecies of the Bible itself The final conflict between good and evil will be over the commandments of God–regarding “times and laws”. ARE YOU SERIOUS? WHEN YOU QUOTE TIMES AND LAWS, YOU ARE REFERRING TO DANIEL 7 AND THE LITTLE HORN POWER. HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU CONSTRUE TIMES AND LAWS BEING SABBATH AND COMMANDMENTS? DO YOU NOT HAVE ACCESS TO DICTIONARIES? TIMES AND LAWS ARE NOT DEFINED AS SABBATH AND COMMANDMENTS. WHILE I RECOGNIZE THAT DISPENSING WITH DICTIONARIES IS USEFUL WHEN OVER-ACTIVE IMAGINATIONS ARE BUSY PROMOTING NOVEL THEORIES, DICTIONARIES ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO THE EXCHANGE OF THOUGHTS AND IDEAS.

SO, MY PLEA TO YOU IS THAT YOU USE A GOOD DICTIONARY WHEN READING THE BIBLE AND PLEASE SHARE YOUR SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO KEEP THE SABBATH AND AVOID BEING IN OPEN REBELLION AGAINST GOD. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE, DO YOU FOLLOW ELLEN WHITE’S DIRECTIVES ON HOW TO KEEP THE SABBATH, WHICH IS JUST LIKE GOD COMMANDED ON MT. SINAI? OR, DO YOU FOLLOW ELLEN WHITE’S MESSAGES SELECTIVELY?

Ken Christman Also Commented

Christians and the Sabbath
Thank you for your admission that you indeed did alter the record. But, as we both know, these were not mere typos, but rather, clear changes in content. The usual method of altering content is to issue an erratum or addendum, as you must certainly be aware. This is accomplished by simply creating another post! Intellectual integrity is important. Please continue to focus your energy on Creationism, but let us all resolve to keep Creationism above reproach.


Christians and the Sabbath
For some inexplicable reason, you seem to be intent on continuing this Sabbath discussion. For me, however, I conclude that I have labored for you in vain, and not only is this discussion nonproductive, but there is no indication that it ever will be in the future. There seems to be absolutely no desire to accurately interpret Scripture on the basis of common dictionaries, which, I must admit can be restrictive to over-active imaginations. You have severely misquoted even my own posts. You have even altered your own posts! I know because I copied your last post last night, and then, when I read it again on your website, there were additions! Whether or not you have altered my previous posts, I do not know. At this point, I must conclude that this type of intellectual integrity does not lend itself to a rational discussion of things of eternal value. Your sole purpose seems to be winning an argument, while my sole purpose is to understand God’s will for my life.

Your constantly shifting positions on the Sabbath and salvation are sufficient for me to understand that there is great confusion. I am saddened that your definition of Sabbath keeping differs from God’s definition. If, as you maintain, the Roman Catholic Church altered the time definition of Sabbath keeping and you yourself obviously altered God’s definition of the manner of Sabbath keeping, are you any different? You invalidate your arguments by being selective in following the clear commands of both God and Ellen White. These arguments are even more problematic because you claim that those who know the truth about Sabbath observance but reject them are in “open rebellion against God”? Perhaps it is because you forget your own words that you find it necessary to go back and “doctor” your previous posts.

At any rate, I wish you the best, and must leave you to your own devices. While I applaud your efforts in teaching and preaching God’s Creationism in 6 literal days, I hope your style is not a distraction, especially when you claim that something can be both “lawful” and “unlawful” simultaneously.

May God bless you.


Christians and the Sabbath
Your continued insistence that a commandment (law) “can be lawfully broken” is indeed extraordinary. If you are unable to grasp how you cannot be lawful and unlawful simultaneously, I’m not sure I can be of much more help to you. The statement that “Jesus only ‘broke the Sabbath’ in order to relieve suffering is absolutely false. In Mark 2, his disciples were gathering corn on the Sabbath and there was no suffering. This was contrary to the commandment which prohibited gathering food on Sabbath. In John 5, Jesus healed a paralytic on Sabbath then told him to take up his bed and walk–on the Sabbath, and this was completely contrary to carrying a burden o Sabbath. While he did indeed heal, the Jews were indignant about the carrying the bed on Sabbath.

You fabricate a statement that I supposedly made, “You cite a single Saturday night prayer meeting as evidence that they didn’t continue to observe the Sabbath. . . ” when I ABSOLUTELY MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, AS MOST OF US UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HAPPENS ON SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER SUNDOWN DOES NOT CONSTITUTE SABBATH OBSERVANCE. I DO NOT KNOW WHY YOU FABRICATE AND TWIST MY STATEMENTS. ARE YOU SURE YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WRITE?

You continue to focus on the shadow of Colossians 2. Hebrews 10:1 also refers to a shadow–“For the law having a shadow of good things to come. . . ” which simply means that the law was a shadow, and the real substance is Christ which replaces the law.

For some inexplicable reason, you continue to maintain that the Sabbath is for all mankind, and claim this is what “anthropos” means. Seriously, we MUST get back to the dictionaries again, as you are violating the Greek dictionary now. Get yourself a good Greek dictionary and look it up. You will find that “anthropos” does NOT mean mankind, and certainly does NOT mean ALL MANKIND. The definition is: THE COUNTENANCE, MAN-FACED, i.e. A HUMAN BEING. This is singular, and not plural. Wikipedia says it is Greek for HUMAN. Matthew 19:5, Matthew 19:10 and I Corinthians 7:1 all use the word “anthropos”, and in each case it is singular.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE respect the dictionaries, whether they be English, Greek, or any other. You do great violence to my the Bible, the words of Jesus, the English and Greek dictionaries, and even what I write.

Your reference to the lake drowning and saying to the rescuer to “get lost” is completely apocryphal. Please restrain yourself from misquoting me.

I explained to you that the Sabbath carried a capital punishment ant that at least one man in the Old Testament was stoned to death for violating the Sabbath commandment. It therefore follows that those who obeyed and did NOT violate the commandment during that time period avoided death and lived. This is a simple concept, yet you disagreed and said “No, that’s not right”. I’m not sure I can be of much more help to you if you cannot grasp simple inverse relationships. Perhaps I’ll make one final attempt. If Adam and Even had NOT eaten the forbidden fruit, would they have died? They ate it, then died as God told them. On the contrary, if they had not eaten, are you claiming that they would not have lived? If you truly are not able to follow this very simple logic, continue violating Scripture, dictionaries, etc., I suppose I’ll have to leave you where you are, hoping that you will someday appreciate Biblical truths for what God is actually trying to tell us.

This has been an interesting excursion, and I’ve been dragged all over the landscape. First, you claimed that Sabbath observance never saved anyone. Then, you claimed that it saved some, but not others. Some “ignorant” souls could be saved while other “ignorant” souls presumably not saved. Then, you maintained that those who knew the “Sabbath truth” but ignored you were in open rebellion against God and could not be saved. Now, you seem to have made a full circle, and your last post said “Keeping the commandments of God aren’t what saves a person.”

Jesus spelled out the process of salvation in John 3. Please read His words closely. He is my Mediator, and He should know.


Recent Comments by Ken Christman

Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
Decay is perfectly natural in a sinful world. There was NO decay prior to the Fall. Non-decay does not require active maintenance on the part of God. His creation was perfect and did not require maintenance like human creations require. Model T’s require active maintenance as they are human creations. The human body God created would have lasted an eternity if sin (disobedience) had not interrupted such perfection. That is when decay started. That is when the genomic code started to deteriorate. It ultimately led to disease and death. God cannot be compared to a mechanic in heaven, as His perfect creation does not require repairs. While the price of sin (disobedience) has been fully paid for, the restoration to perfection has not happened yet. Once it occurs (which I believe will be soon), there will be a complete restoration that will not require a “mechanic” for active maintenance, as decay, degeneration, decay, death (all those ugly D’s) will no longer exist.

As for assuming that genetic mutations have occurred at a constant rate since the fall of Adam and Eve, we should consider the fallacies of assuming constant degradation of Carbon-14 and the problems such assumptions have created. As Creationists, we should exercise caution in making assertions we cannot prove.

As for God being bound by His own laws, let us consider Jesus bringing perfect peace and tranquility just by commanding the elements to be still during a raging storm. We cannot understand such divine power over EVERYTHING, including the power to breath life into a lump of clay which was instantly transformed into a perfectly fine human body with over 5 billion base pairs (the human genome) and able to perfectly replicate without decay or deterioration of the system. Satan also has supernatural power, but God’s power is infinitely greater. Whenever there is supernatural activity, it can come from only of two sources. We do know for a fact that postdiluvian human life spans rapidly contracted from ca. 900 years to circa 70 years in just a few generations. I’m sure most Creationists would agree that God had a hand in this, and that this was not “natural”. Whether He did this by altering the mutation rate, we have no way of knowing, as mutation rates were not measured at that time and there is no way for us to reconstruct those past mutation rates.

As for Einstein, Newton, and others, I would exercise restraint in following any of their religious or theological assumptions.


Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
We may have observed mutation rates in the recent past, but how do we know what mutation rates were 100 years ago, 1,000 years ago, or 6,000 years ago? Prior to roughly 6,000 years ago, we can safely say mutation rates were ZERO, as God’s creation was perfect, and there was no sin, death, or deterioration in the genomic code!


Most Species the “Same Age” with No “In-Between” Species
While data suggesting the hand of the Creator God in the creation of all living things is always welcome, one should exercise great caution in assuming the constancy of mutation rates. After all, God shortened human lifespans from ca. 900 years to ca. 70 years in only a few generations. Do you suppose He might have done that by altering mutation rates? Do you suppose that a powerful God who breathed life into a lump of clay could easily tinker with mutation rates? Furthermore, mutation rates would have highly variable effects on life forms in different species based upon average lifespans. Let us hope and pray that more scientists will be troubled by uncovering data that will lead them to trust the Genesis creation account as the only scientifically logical explanation of how we got here.


The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
Your concern about mysticism within Adventism is well founded. Pastor Bill Loveless identified Ellen White in the pages of the Adventist Review as a “true mystic.” “Mysticism” is defined in the dictionary as a euphemism for the occult. Look it up.


The Sabbath and the Covenants (Old vs. New)
You are right. I am totally confused as to what distinguishes “Historical Old Covenant” from “Old Covenant Thinking”. You and Chris White maintain that Sabbath observance is not necessary for salvation. Ellen White clearly states that it is necessary. Chris and Ellen CANNOT both be correct.