I agree with Sean, we need the rewording. You …

Comment on Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation by Faith.

I agree with Sean, we need the rewording. You will never convince anyone who does not want to be convinced that the six-day creation came to pass on six literal days if they don’t want to be convinced. This exercise is to make our church’s stand absolutely clear. The truth should be stated and the chips can fall where they may.

Frankly, like Sean, I don’t see why anyone would oppose the rewording unless it foils their attempts to marry truth with error.

And, yes, David, I think the original wording was clear enough for anyone who wants to believe the truth about Creation; however, making it even more iron-clad won’t hurt any honest soul.

Just my two-bits’ worth.

Faith Also Commented

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
@Sean Pitman:

Actually, Sean, in most points I agree with you. Of course we live in free countries and, technically, the church could vote out any and all of our fundamental beliefs–if God allowed it–which I don’t believe He ever will. We have been told in SOP that the church will go through to the end, and I know that without God’s protecting hand over it, it would have fallen long ere this. I simply don’t want to even countenance such a possibility. To me, to voice it gives the possibility credence. It’s like opening Pandora’s box, which should be kept firmly closed. Perhaps you think I am being silly, but that is the way I feel.

Sean&#032Pitman: My statement that the church needs to be either hot or cold is largely tongue-in-cheek, largely rhetorical of course.

Well, Sean, I totally agree with the statement that the church should be either hot or cold–Christ himself said that–whether rhetorical or not. Of course, hopefully the church will be hot rather than cold. In my opinion, we collectively need to wake up and quit being so politically correct; we need to know what we believe and stand firmly and openly for it. If we weren’t waffling in the wind so much, maybe we could actually get the work done and go Home.

The main problem seems to be that so many of us have our sights set on the world. If Heaven is our Home, then we need to set our sights much higher, don’t you think? We need to quit striving for the world’s acceptance and worry more about God’s acceptance.

In a nut shell, that is the problem with the LSU profs. They are thirsting for worldly acceptance. They are now so hardened in their thought processes, that they don’t seem to care a fig for what God wants, they just want to fit in with the world. They are now apparently convinced that the world is teaching truth and God is teaching a lie. That is the fruit of chasing after the world. The SDA educational system should be firmly founded on God and His Word–instead the more highly educated ones, who should be the shepherds to the flock, are leading the lambs astray. That is so sad.

I applaud your site for bringing this to the attention of the average SDA. It is absolutely appalling, and the situation calls for much prayer as well as much faith and action. While most of us are powerless to do anything to change this situation, God is not. He will act at His appointed time. In the meantime, we need to continue to sound the alarm and continue to plead with God on behalf of our beloved church.

God Bless you, Sean, as well as all the rest of you on this site who are standing for truth.

Have a good day.

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation

“If, on the other hand, the Adventist Church decides, as an organization, that the concept of a literal 6-day creation week really isn’t all that “fundamental” to the primary mission of the church, then it should make this new position crystal clear to all of its constituents.” – Sean Pitman

I’m sorry, Sean, but I don’t think there should even be another “hand”. If there is, then we leave ourselves open to people like Fritz Guy and Lawrence Geraty to make our rules for us–the very thing you (and I) are opposed to. The SDA church was founded on God-given truths and there should be no allowance made for a vote by members of the church to change even one of our beliefs. To do so would be to destroy our church from within…the very thing Satan is trying to do.

This should be considered sacred ground and there should not be allowed even a hint of the possibility that this could happen.

There are certainly things that can come under a voting process–but not the fundamental beliefs of the church. Anyone who doesn’t believe them should find another church, not destroy ours.

Changing the Wording of Adventist Fundamental Belief #6 on Creation
And you are correct, Sean, PK must consider where his influence is going–for God or against Him.

Recent Comments by Faith

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Pauluc: “I do not judge my beliefs by anything other than the revelation of God in Jesus Christ. I judge my science by the conventions that has been the source of the knowledge of the world that we now possess and enjoy. I do not at all confuse the two.”

Seeing as science was created by God, just how do you presume to separate the two? Science, like every other part of our lives, should include God. You can’t profess to believe in a God that Created the earth when looking at religion and deny the Creator when looking at science. That would be “science-so-called”. True science reflects the Creator.

You can’t have it both ways–either you believe in the Bible and God as Creator in your science or you don’t believe the Bible and God as Creator in your religion. God does not accept the divided heart.

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Mack&#032Ramsy: You must either acknowledge a massive global conspiracy, or that there is some truth in what is being taught.

There is a massive global conspiracy, Mack. It is called Satan going around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. All your supposed knowledge, if it contradicts in any way, shape, or form, what God stated in the Bible is WRONG. Anyone who is deceived thereby is not wise.

Mack&#032Ramsy: We’re trying to incorporate what the bible teaches in a constructive meaningful way.

Not so–you are doing violence to the Scriptures to try to make it fit man-made theories. You have chosen, unwisely, to reject God’s word in favour of man’s theories. That’s the truth of it.

Mack&#032Ramsy: Oh i know this is kind of a personal question but how many gay people have you killed this week? No? any pagans then? Hmm. Might want to get on that. Just a friendly suggestion in helping you be personally accountable for biblical teachings from friend in Jesus.

Hardly a friendly suggestion, Mack, more like a nasty accusation. I wonder how surprised you are going to be to see the wicked punished? God doesn’t like to do the dirty work, but it will have to be done. In the meantime, pointing out sin isn’t the same as killing someone, is it???

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Bill&#032Sorensen: We have a good spiritual time, and many tell me when they are getting out, they will keep the bible Sabbath

God Bless you and your ministry, Bill.

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There has been much discussion on the church and whether or not it will, as an organization, go through to the end. In reading the various posts I have come to the conclusion that we seem to be using different definitions of ‘the end’ and thus are not in agreement on this topic. I would like to clarify, if I may, what I believe concerning the church and the end of time.

I do agree with many of you that there will be a time when the church will not be operating as a physical organization. That will be the time when we are scattered in various hiding places over the earth, or in prison, as the Lord sees fit–and this will happen after the close of probation with the entrance and enforcement of the International Sunday Laws. However, I don’t think that this negates the church being alive to the end. No, we won’t be meeting in churches, or paying our tithes and offerings to the organization just before God comes. But the church–the people and her doctrines–will survive to the end.

In the book Messenger of the Lord by Herbert E Douglass, he points to a statement that E G White made in 1908, “I am instructed to say to Seventh-day Adventists the world over, God has called us as a people to be a peculiar treasure unto Himself. He has appointed that His church on earth shall stand perfectly united in the Spirit and counsel of the Lord of hosts to the end of time.”18

The book goes on to say:

“Revelation 3 depicts no last-day church beyond Laodicea, thus giving hope that some day many of them will repent, overcome, and fulfill God’s plan for the last-day church (Rev. 3:18-21). No other subject for any church-related agenda, either for individuals or institutions, can be more urgent or important to implement.”

My beliefs agree with these statements. We have been given no other counsel to leave the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Since Ellen White was a prophet for the last days–to the very end of time, I think she would have made it crystal clear–abundantly clear–that we would have to leave this church if, indeed, we would. I remember a statement saying to the effect “Stay with the church for she will come into port.” So, I will not be looking for another church.

I do know it is possible for the church to become Babylon. The possiblity exists as long as there is sin on this earth. However, I think that if this is going to happen to the SDA church, it would have been prophesied for us, so that we would be prepared to leave the church. I also realize that new light may yet come to us…but I sincerely doubt that, in the light of the shaking (which is a reformation), we need to worry about this. I fully believe the church will be cleansed to allow the work to be finished. From what Sister Ellen says, those who come into the church will fill the places of the ones who are shaken out. This will happen before probation ends, or else there would be no way anyone could change.

Hopefully this makes my stance more clear on this subject. Sorry if I have misled anyone with my earlier posts.

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And round and round we go.

Professor Kent and Pauluc et al continue to try to force us all to admit to blind faith as the reason for our belief in Creation, and Sean, bless him, conintues to offer proofs for Creation because he knows that there are evidences of the Creator in Creation and we don’t have to take it all on “blind” faith. So…what is behind all this constant strife?

Here’s how I see it.

The professors and other like-minded individuals want us to claim blind faith because then they think they can put Creation into a little box called “Religion” and separate it from the box called “Science” (that’s their opinion, not mine.) This is a vain quest, because it can’t be done. You cannot separate the Creator from His science. You cannot, with any integrity, separate your religion from any part of your life. The only possible reason to try to do this is so you can put forth “proofs” propounded by mere men that don’t mesh with the Bible. This is being double minded…trying to serve God and man…which, of course is, in reality, not serving God at all, because you are basically calling Him a liar.

Don’t you realize that Satan is a masterful deceiver? Don’t you think he can manipulate the evidence to make you draw false conclusions from it? Don’t you realize that there is a perfectly good explanation for it all if it is seen in the correct light?

You see, this is where I feel that some SDA scientists lose their credibility. They have been faced with arguments that may, on the surface, prove evolution. So they begin to question God instead of questioning the evolutionists. Just the fact that if you look at the whole picture you can see that the world is getting worse and worse instead of better and better blows the whole theory of evolution right out of the water.

And why do our SDA scientists go to the world for their wisdom when we have the Bible and SOP to guide us? They are looking for worldly acceptance and acclaim, that’s why. They don’t want to be seen as the “lunatic fringe” who believe in God. They can’t tolerate the jeering of the worldly “scientists.” They perceive that as undermining their credibility and dignity as professional scientists. Well in actual fact, they lose their credibility as both Christians and scientists when they try to marry truth with error.

This is why Professor Kent’s claim to believe in Creation as stated in the Bible is not taken seriously. How can it be when he tries to claim there are no evidences to support Creation? That is simply not true. Sean can, and has, presented many evidences to support Creation. And there are many others out there like Sean that understand the significance of these evidences.

Of course the typical response from the “scientists” is that those who claim there is evidence for Creation are “uneducated”, “ignorant” people who “don’t understand scientific principles.” Yet these are the very people who claim that evolution, an unscientific and unprovable theory, is the answer to human origins. This is unfathomably faulty logic. There is no valid reason why SDA scientists should be promoting evolution in any of its forms.

While I know that there are aspects of God and His Creation that are a mystery to us at this point, and that must be taken on faith, we are not called to base our beliefs on “blind” faith. We have every reason to believe that God speaks the truth to us in His word and that we can rely on His veracity 100% whether or not we have concrete proof that what He claims is true. We have seen, and are seeing daily, prophecies come true. It is absolutely amazing that He could give Nebuchadnezzar a dream that accurately shows the world’s kingdoms right to the end of time. And it has all come to pass as predicted. That in itself should inspire complete confidence in His Word.

So, what it all boils down to is this: Professor Kent and Pauluc, who claim to have faith in God’s Word actually undermine it and Sean, who claims to have no blind faith, actually upholds the faith. Kind of funny, isn’t it?

Happy Sabbath everyone.